At It Again, Broke Out The Umik

[ryanosaur]

I’m in the Midwest... moms is in the hospital. *blech

Anyway, yeah that suck out is bigger than the Grand Canyon!



I’ll have some time later when I’m done with family. Don’t get lost... remember the breadcrumbs, Hansl.

 

[Grandzoltar]

Try putting one at the end of the couch where the end table is. That may be a better near field placement.

 

[KEW]

Well that just made everything suck... The nearfield sub measures horribly before and after Audyssey, sigh. Back up front they go. Might stack 'em both on the left side, where they measured much better (terrible on the right, even my main right speaker measures horribly) and run setup again.

Further validation of your current setup!
...and if do you find better, whoo-hoo!

 

[snakeeyes]

So thought it was good before with the subs crossover set at 120hz?

Probably the opening to the right is affecting things. (As you said).

 

[Pogre]

Further validation of your current setup!
...and if do you find better, whoo-hoo!

You know, I thought exactly the same thing. I eliminated a couple of nagging questions that have been bugging me and it was worth it. I learned a bit. I put them almost everywhere I realistically could and not be in the way on a permanent basis. Even stacked them on the left side. They actually measured pretty well there, but I don't know if I was sold on the stack so I didn't level match or run Audyssey. May revisit that one day... I was a little limited on RCA cordage or I would have tried one in the kitchen behind me too. It was real work and it took all day, but now I know some more what I'm dealing with. That right side is causing a major suckout.

I did a lot of measuring of my front 4, both all together and individually. The right side is just terrible. Even now it still doesn't measure that great. The good news is, the left side seems to be able to compensate. It measures much better and I'm able to get some pretty decent looking graphs that my ears are confirming as sounding well balanced again. Cleaned up some of the waterfall too. I have 2 things against me over there. That open room and the foyer is bumped out to the front door. I even got every pillow we have in the house and got a stack almost as tall as me in that corner to see if that would do anything (I think @William Lemmerhirt told me he's done that before, lol). Nope. Measured almost exactly the same.

I put everything back and recalibrated. Pretty happy with my results, which are in line with how I had it before.

*Edit: Damnit, those charts keep defaulting to 10 dB on the y axis! I'm one click off from 5 dB. It's very close. I opened the session back up to fix it so I could edit it in and I had deleted the first set of 5 measurements. Grrrr...!

 

[Pogre]

Try putting one at the end of the couch where the end table is. That may be a better near field placement.

I don't know why I didn't try that... If I do this again I will for sure. I was getting tired. Both mentally and physically, lol. I still want to run a full correction with them stacked on the left too. Maybe after I relax for a couple days.

 

[Pogre]

So thought it was good before with the subs crossover set at 120hz?

Probably the opening to the right is affecting things. (As you said).

It was, and it is again. Busted my ass all day only to put everything back the way it was, phew.

Yes, that opening to the right is making a mess, but I was still able to make things work together.

 

[ryanosaur]

Okay, I removed all filters and turned MultEQ off, then did 2 sub sweeps, left and right. Ugly. Clearly the sub on the right is not happy.
View attachment 31533

Ok, my thought on this is looking at room size and placement. Specifically, your full wavelength there in that suckout is about 25’, and half- is 12.5’. Are there corresponding measurements between that sub and a wall? What is a little stranger is that the other sub shows it too, and also at an octave up, though the right doesn’t show the octave up.
Anyway, my solution would be to try breaking any symmetries up. If your speakers and subs are in line, move the right on into the room by a couple inches, and lefty back a little, or forward but not as much... try to get them so that they aren’t symmetrical to each other or your towers and recheck. If it is a frequency cancellation due to wavelength, you should be able to break that up.
I had to do that with my towers, and I got 10dB of a 20dB dip back. Just by moving my left side by about 1.5 inches on a ~22’ wavelength cancellation (11’ from driver to wall and back again... showed there, and at the octave!).

 

[Pogre]

Ok, my thought on this is looking at room size and placement. Specifically, your full wavelength there in that suckout is about 25’, and half- is 12.5’. Are there corresponding measurements between that sub and a wall? What is a little stranger is that the other sub shows it too, and also at an octave up, though the right doesn’t show the octave up.
Anyway, my solution would be to try breaking any symmetries up. If your speakers and subs are in line, move the right on into the room by a couple inches, and lefty back a little, or forward but not as much... try to get them so that they aren’t symmetrical to each other or your towers and recheck. If it is a frequency cancellation due to wavelength, you should be able to break that up.
I had to do that with my towers, and I got 10dB of a 20dB dip back. Just by moving my left side by about 1.5 inches on a ~22’ wavelength cancellation (11’ from driver to wall and back again... showed there, and at the octave!).

I have not tried that and it certainly sounds worth a shot. I understand what you're getting at when you say to break up the symmetry. Sliding one a li'l forward and the other one back probably won't trigger my OCD either!

 

[ryanosaur]

I have not tried that and it certainly sounds worth a shot. I understand what you're getting at when you say to break up the symmetry. Sliding one a li'l forward and the other one back probably won't trigger my OCD either!

Lol
I was trying to keep my towers lined up because my room is so small. Those Phil 3s got some BACK on em... 2’ deep and 18” off the front wall. My room is 11’w x 15’d and I got those and two x-13s in there. But truthfully, I kinda like the asymmetrical look of slightly different toe-in and front to back placement.
Besides, if it works, you are actually satisfying the functional part of your OCD by getting better measurements!

 

[Pogre]

Oh, and sorry to hear about your mom Ryan. Hope it's nothing too serious.

 

[ryanosaur]

Oh, and sorry to hear about your mom Ryan. Hope it's nothing too serious.

Thanks! Pretty serious. Might be time. But that’s life and we all have to deal with it. She’s had a good run though, and for all her flaws, she’s still mom.

Anyway, I know somebody else posted this somewhere else, but it’s helpful when looking at your room:
https://www.jdbsound.com/art/frequency wave length chart 2013.pdf
Nice tool to have bookmarked. I’ve got it in an open tab on my phones browser. Yeah, I’m a weird one.

 

[Pogre]

So I'm sitting here thinking, when we had the house built we had the option to put a door where that opening is. But noooo! I said "it'll be nice and open. The room will be bigger and more spacious!". Old me wants to go back and tell young me that I could always just OPEN THE DOOR if I get claustrophobic...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So I'm sitting here thinking, when we had the house built we had the option to put a door where that opening is. But noooo! I said "it'll be nice and open. The room will be bigger and more spacious!". Old me wants to go back and tell young me that I could always just OPEN THE DOOR if I get claustrophobic...

View attachment 31564

Rofl, I can think of a couple of those. I am a lot smarter than when we built our house too. Looking back I should’ve installed a complete in ceiling Bose lifestyle system.

 

[TheWarrior]

I've been outta town. Sorry I "pissed you off" (I did see that post prior to deletion) but I am just trying to help.

If you're happy, be happy! But the OP sounded like you wanted more - which requires a great deal more specifics. Like giving context of how and where your measurements were taken. What were ALL of the settings before/after? Because it appears you took five sweeps at different SPLs... why?

I've been 'happy enough' for a couple years now, simply because I know how many hours are going to be spent achieving better. And I know I've said for a couple years now I am going to post that process in detail.

You're right. It's time to get off my @#$.

 

[Pogre]

I've been outta town. Sorry I "pissed you off" (I did see that post prior to deletion) but I am just trying to help.

If you're happy, be happy! But the OP sounded like you wanted more - which requires a great deal more specifics. Like giving context of how and where your measurements were taken. What were ALL of the settings before/after? Because it appears you took five sweeps at different SPLs... why?

I've been 'happy enough' for a couple years now, simply because I know how many hours are going to be spent achieving better. And I know I've said for a couple years now I am going to post that process in detail.

You're right. It's time to get off my @#$.

The 5 sweeps are a combination of different reference level offsets and one time I forgot to adjust the volume from one session to the next.

Of all of the times you've come into my threads (plural) to tell me that I'm doing it wrong, not once have you offered anything useful or helpful (just a lot of copy pasted parroting from Lord Toole's writings with no true understanding). In fact your tone and attitude are more antagonistic than anything. What exactly, is your goal here? I'd love to have you over to listen and measure for yourself, but since that is very unlikely and you have no clue what my efforts actually sound like I would kindly ask that you refrain from the unhelpful and derisive comments until you know what you're talking about.

Thanks.

 

[TheWarrior]

The 5 sweeps are a combination of different reference level offsets and one time I forgot to adjust the volume from one session to the next.

Of all of the times you've come into my threads (plural) to tell me that I'm doing it wrong, not once have you offered anything useful or helpful (just a lot of copy pasted parroting from Lord Toole's writings with no true understanding). In fact your tone and attitude are more antagonistic than anything. What exactly, is your goal here? I'd love to have you over to listen and measure for yourself, but since that is very unlikely and you have no clue what my efforts actually sound like I would kindly ask that you refrain from the unhelpful and derisive comments until you know what you're talking about.

Thanks.

Wow. My response even included the words, "You're right." I literally owned my BS, and you still went off.

A computer and a microphone still require a brain to interpret. All I am asking you to do, is use yours.

You keep making these audyssey posts seeking better results. But they all seem to end with you right back where you started.

So I'll say again, You're Right. I have wasted way too much time 'telling', and spent none 'doing'.

So thanks for the motivation!

*bows out*

 

[Pogre]

Wow. My response even included the words, "You're right." I literally owned my BS, and you still went off.

A computer and a microphone still require a brain to interpret. All I am asking you to do, is use yours.

You keep making these audyssey posts seeking better results. But they all seem to end with you right back where you started.

So I'll say again, You're Right. I have wasted way too much time 'telling', and spent none 'doing'.

So thanks for the motivation!

*bows out*

I'm not wholly unsatisfied, I'm just playing around. My *real* goal was to see if repositioning everything would allow me to use a higher crossover (currently 120 hz because that's where my brain and measurements both agree it sounds best). I drastically changed up my sub placement and took measurements each time. If I got things to sound better, great. If not, I've learned a little more. The foyer and opening on the right side of my room are causing problems.

This is more about just documenting my progress. I've zeroed in on some room modes and am able to fix some of it with mild EQing. Moving my subs from the front of the room didn't give me the results I'd hoped for so I put everything back. At this point I'm resigned to just living with the higher crossover, which is not a terrible thing because it really does sound awesome. I don't currently have any major issues, I just want to utilize my towers a little more. Unless I completely reconfigure where I have everything placed that's just not gonna happen.

 

[Pogre]

I post threads like this because I'm just having some fun and might learn something useful along the way that could help someone else down the road. Plus it keeps things lively around here!

I'm not trying to say I've got it locked and perfect or that my method is the be all end all, but I can say it's hella improved from what I had before the MiniDSP. My ears agree with what my eyes see in the measurements so I'm calling my efforts so far to date successful until I hear better.

 

[Alex2507]

OCD

We say, "attention to detail".