Amazon offers lossless and high bit rate streaming

[Irvrobinson]

I don't buy into a lot of things Paul at PS Audio pushes...

Good choice:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

A fascinating study in poor design and implementation.

 

[Pogre]

Good choice:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

A fascinating study in poor design and implementation.

Many of you would have guessed that PerfectWave DirectStream DAC would not do well on the bench. That is of course true. The real issue in my opinion though is not the internal design of the DAC functionality. After all, there are other companies that use the same approach and achieve superb measured results. The problem here is simple: the output transformer. Transformers are just not linear to the levels we expect to have in a DAC (as opposed to say, in a tube amp).

The sonic effects are there in my semi-formal tests. Perhaps the older audiophiles including the designer Ted Smith, have lost so much high frequency hearing that the harmonic distortion this DAC adds makes up for some of that and they think they are hearing more. If that is the case, just buy a Jensen transformer and put it on the output of your DAC and you would get the same effect!

The fidelity loss here is apparent in both objective and subjective testing. There is nothing to hang your hat on hence the decapitated Pink Panther which leaves no room for such attire.

Needless to say, I cannot in any shape or form recommend the PerfectWave DirectStream DAC.

Ouch.

 

[mtrot]

Good choice:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

A fascinating study in poor design and implementation.

Thanks for the link. Well, I'm certainly not married to PS Audio, as this is my first DAC. I'm also not sure how well the Stellar Gain Cell DAC would measure and perform, compared to this Direct Stream DAC.

I'm all ears for alternative DACS!

 

[Pogre]

I think the DACs in most well designed receivers are more than good enough.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Ouch.

Amir not only doesn't take advertising, he isn't dependent on manufacturers to send him samples to test. (If you read the review, a purchaser of the PS Audio DAC sent it to Amir for testing). This makes Amir rather courageous in conclusions. Also, and Amir admits this, he is focused on engineering excellence, and admits in several reviews that there might not be audible differences between units that have significantly different measurements. Another factor in the review is that the PS Audio DAC retails for $6000...

 

[Pogre]

Amir not only doesn't take advertising, he isn't dependent on manufacturers to send him samples to test. (If you read the review, a purchaser of the PS Audio DAC sent it to Amir for testing). This makes Amir rather courageous in conclusions. Also, and Amir admits this, he is focused on engineering excellence, and admits in several reviews that there might not be audible differences between units that have significantly different measurements. Another factor in the review is that the PS Audio DAC retails for $6000...

I don't remember which video it was, but when I heard Paul say that "Cables do make a difference. Don't ask me how, they just do. And no I'm not doing any DBT tests that the chickens like to squawk about." I stopped watching his videos. It makes me crazy listening to people make claims like that, then refuse to back them up.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't remember which video it was, but when I heard Paul say that "Cables do make a difference. Don't ask me how, they just do. And no I'm not doing any DBT tests that the chickens like to squawk about." I stopped watching his videos. It makes me crazy listening to people make claims like that, then refuse to back them up.

He has a whole series of idiotic videos espousing audiophool stuff (that they sell coincidentally).

 

[Pogre]

He has a whole series of idiotic videos espousing audiophool stuff (that they sell coincidentally).

Yeah, I know. I watched a bunch of them. Some of the stuff he advises, such as room and speakers having the greatest impact over anything drew me in. When he started on squawking chickens and magic cables tho I ducked out. Haven't watched any since.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm all ears for alternative DACS!

For what you paid for the Stellar Gain thing you're in the range of the Benchmark Media DAC3. What are the rest of the electronic components in your system?

 

[mtrot]

For what you paid for the Stellar Gain thing you're in the range of the Benchmark Media DAC3. What are the rest of the electronic components in your system?

Thanks, it is a family room system, and it is used for both music and HT. It's not high end at all. I use a Krell FPB 400cx power amp for the front L/R channels, as well as a Denon AVR-X5200. I use the HT bypass feature of the PS Audio when watching movies. My Oppo UDP 203 is used for watching Blu-ray discs, as well as my SACD and DVD-Audio titles(also using the HT bypass feature). I also have a cable box and turntable connected to the 5200.
The reason I bought the Stellar Gain DAC in the first place was so as to try out a separate DAC, as opposed to relying on the one in the 5200. What appealed to me about the Stellar Gain unit is that it is also a pre-amp that has the HT bypass.

I guess I could get a better DAC and connect it to the Stellar Gain unit's analog input and use its pre-amp capability. But then I would be involving two sets of interconnects, which I wanted to avoid.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks, it is a family room system, and it is used for both music and HT. It's not high end at all. I use a Krell FPB 400cx power amp for the front L/R channels, as well as a Denon AVR-X5200. I use the HT bypass feature of the PS Audio when watching movies. My Oppo UDP 203 is used for watching Blu-ray discs, as well as my SACD and DVD-Audio titles(also using the HT bypass feature). I also have a cable box and turntable connected to the 5200.
The reason I bought the Stellar Gain DAC in the first place was so as to try out a separate DAC, as opposed to relying on the one in the 5200. What appealed to me about the Stellar Gain unit is that it is also a pre-amp that has the HT bypass.

I guess I could get a better DAC and connect it to the Stellar Gain unit's analog input and use its pre-amp capability. But then I would be involving two sets of interconnects, which I wanted to avoid.

I think the most reasonable answer is to use the DAC in the X5200. If you insist on a separate DAC/pre-amp I still recommend the Benchmark DAC3L, but frankly I think it would be a waste of money.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks, it is a family room system, and it is used for both music and HT. It's not high end at all. I use a Krell FPB 400cx power amp for the front L/R channels, as well as a Denon AVR-X5200. I use the HT bypass feature of the PS Audio when watching movies. My Oppo UDP 203 is used for watching Blu-ray discs, as well as my SACD and DVD-Audio titles(also using the HT bypass feature). I also have a cable box and turntable connected to the 5200.
The reason I bought the Stellar Gain DAC in the first place was so as to try out a separate DAC, as opposed to relying on the one in the 5200. What appealed to me about the Stellar Gain unit is that it is also a pre-amp that has the HT bypass.

I guess I could get a better DAC and connect it to the Stellar Gain unit's analog input and use its pre-amp capability. But then I would be involving two sets of interconnects, which I wanted to avoid.

What speakers?

 

[mtrot]

What speakers?

Well, they're pretty old, lol. But they still sound pretty good to me. Legacy Audio Signature II. All my equipment is in my signature, except for this new PS Audio unit.

 

[Pogre]

I think the most reasonable answer is to use the DAC in the X5200. If you insist on a separate DAC/pre-amp I still recommend the Benchmark DAC3L, but frankly I think it would be a waste of money.

Agreed. If better sound quality is the goal that money can be far more useful if put into the speakers, room treatments or both. The more I listen to and read about differences in DACs the more I think they're a waste of money. There are very few cases where an external DAC will make any difference, imo.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, they're pretty old, lol. But they still sound pretty good to me. Legacy Audio Signature II. All my equipment is in my signature, except for this new PS Audio unit.

LOL didn't even look (and signatures are not visible via Tapatalk even tho I wasn't using it at the moment). I think way too much fuss is made by guys converting old 2ch analog systems to digital capabilities when it comes to external dacs....

 

[Pogre]

Well, they're pretty old, lol. But they still sound pretty good to me. Legacy Audio Signature II. All my equipment is in my signature, except for this new PS Audio unit.

You have some pretty nice speakers. I love how they look.

 

[JengaHit]

I'm glad you mentioned that. It seems that a lot of people are questioning the value of higher res music on the basis of the quality of their remaining high frequency hearing ability. At my age, I certainly cannot hear those high frequencies. But to me, the advantage of higher res, whether music files or lossless movie codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio, is that they sound smoother, as you say, and more organic and natural in the mid range. Things like massed strings and voices.

As to using your laptop, that is what I'm doing with my HP laptop, feeding my PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/pre-amp via a relatively inexpensive Supra 2.0 USB cable. Before I got the USB cable, I was using an analog interconnect from the laptop's headphone output to an analog input on the PS Audio. I can say that using the USB cable is superior in every way to the analog interconnect, which leaves one dependent on the DAC in the laptop. Via the USB cable, the sound is much more clear, dynamic, and immediate sounding.

I will say, perhaps because of the PS Audio's clarity and accuracy, the sound seems fairly "bright" and certainly not a euphonic sound at all. I don't think I can blame that sonic signature on Amazon's service. Amazon's HD and UltraHD tracks are quite clear, with good sound stage and imaging, vocals are placed well across the stage, and you can hear multiple vocalists nicely. As I only just started using the DAC section of the PS Audio, I'm going to wait some time before making any further judgements on the sound. I'm not sure I buy into "break in", but am going to give it some time nonetheless.

For me CD quality (16/44) suffices for most music. Modern DACs are a lot better than what we were using in the 80s at the dawn of the CD era. But as I said, on some classical recordings and music that isn't over-processed by recording engineers and producers, I do notice a subtle difference. For me the difference usually lies in how acoustic voice recordings handle distortion when singers and choirs sing at full tilt, particularly baritones and tenors. I listen for hash and glare during these passages. But the mastering and sound-engineering decisions made at the site or in studio or in post can also matter. So a hi-res version of a particular recording might not always be superior if an originally inferior master is still used. I've noticed some older Deutsche Grammophone or Decca recordings are still somewhat bright and strident in hi-res. Others, like Michael Tilson Thomas' SF Sym Mahler cycle on the SFSO's own label are superbly recorded live in a great venue, Davies Hall. Hi res versions are subtly superior in these cases. While hi-res might not be a slam dunk for all recordings, with subscription streaming I can now at least audition more easily to see if there's an improvement.

 

[mtrot]

I think the most reasonable answer is to use the DAC in the X5200. If you insist on a separate DAC/pre-amp I still recommend the Benchmark DAC3L, but frankly I think it would be a waste of money.

Based on the info here today, I should try running the USB to the 5200. The only USB input on the 5200 is on the front panel, and is labeled:

"USB port
This is used to connect USB storages (such as USB memory devices) and the USB cable supplied with iPod."

Will this also work when connected to the laptop?

I will have to get another USB cable, as the one I bought for the PS Audio uses the B type connector.

 

[lovinthehd]

Based on the info here today, I should try running the USB to the 5200. The only USB input on the 5200 is on the front panel, and is labeled:

"USB port
This is used to connect USB storages (such as USB memory devices) and the USB cable supplied with iPod."

Will this also work when connected to the laptop?

I will have to get another USB cable, as the one I bought for the PS Audio uses the B type connector.

USB on the avr would be only for mass storage devices (like a thumb drive or phone formatted correctly). Why not use hdmi instead?

ps Wifi connection may also work for you....

 

[Pogre]

I just now realized that when you're viewing the lyrics you can click on the lines above and below the current ones to skip forward or back to them. I never noticed that before!