Amazon offers lossless and high bit rate streaming

[lovinthehd]

I had one of the Amazon HD service links pop up so I looked at it and they mentioned they soon wouldn't be supporting the basic library I had on Amazon (of the auto rips from cd purchases) so I thought I'd better capture those rips just for the heck of it. It was very frustrating downloading those...it's setup for one track at a time and with the way they did it I couldn't do more than 6 at a shot....I sure as hell hope their downloads in the future are better thought out than that. I was ready to kill by the time I finished (it would have been quicker in the end to simply convert my FLAC rips of those discs to mp3s, but since I do use mp3s in my truck....)

 

[panteragstk]

That's why discs are preferred for both audio and video. Can you really tell difference between lossy Dolby Digital and lossless True Dolby?

Depends on if it's transcoded from TrueHD or not. Sometimes the mix is different.

The way I look at it is that if I have a rip that has HD audio and a device that supports it, why use one that doesn't?

 

[sholling]

Funny thing is, which is sort of related to this post, is that I don't use my FireTV 4k because of the lack of audio codec support. My shield TV has Amazon Music. Might have to fire it up and start the trial to see what results I get.

So far it doesn't look (but I could be wrong) like the Shield's Amazon Music app has gotten an HD music update. My Android phone and my Windows 10 laptop have been updated over the last two days for HD and I've read that Roku has theirs. I have played with Amazon Music HD using the HEOS app on my receiver and while a pain to use it sounds pretty good. My next step will be to test the Windows app with my Schiit Stack and Senn HD6XX sometime this weekend.

 

[snakeeyes]

Well I was able to get both my Fire stick 4K to work with built in app, as well as airplay to my Apple TV 4K via my iPhone6s, however, the max I get on either is 24/48 via HDMI 2.0a/b to my Yamaha 2060.
I’m not sure I “need” or can tell 48 vs 96 or 192, but it bugs me. LOL
I do understand I may be able to add an external DAC for my iPhone to use with my Sennheisers or KEF headphones but no idea what is recommended there.

 

[panteragstk]

So far it doesn't look (but I could be wrong) like the Shield's Amazon Music app has gotten an HD music update. My Android phone and my Windows 10 laptop have been updated over the last two days for HD and I've read that Roku has theirs. I have played with Amazon Music HD using the HEOS app on my receiver and while a pain to use it sounds pretty good. My next step will be to test the Windows app with my Schiit Stack and Senn HD6XX sometime this weekend.

Good to know. I'll check to see if an update is coming. Or I could just sideload the phone app.

 

[panteragstk]

Found more info on their FAQ page. Lays out what devices support what bit rate/depth.

Looks like a lot of devices don't support the really high bit rates without a DAC.

https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=mh_s9_acss_cg_AMHDEDU_2b1_w?node=14070322011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=mobile-hybrid-10&pf_rd_r=MB0AKE39PG98S6VTMBK1&pf_rd_t=1201&pf_rd_p=4ce74fd4-b194-401f-8992-87157f7b3d4f&pf_rd_i=14063680011#hd-anchor2

 

[panteragstk]

It seems to have correctly identified that my DAC hooked up to my PC supports 24 bit 96khz. I've also noticed that it will change automatically, though I'm not sure why it would need to.

 

[Pogre]

I just dove into my sound settings on my lappy and found where I can change my sample and bit rates. It worked!

Now if I could find such a setting on my FireTV I'd be set...

 

[Pogre]

It seems to have correctly identified that my DAC hooked up to my PC supports 24 bit 96khz. I've also noticed that it will change automatically, though I'm not sure why it would need to.

View attachment 31444

We're streaming the same thing!

 

[panteragstk]

We're streaming the same thing!

Great minds. One of my all time favorite bands.

 

[panteragstk]

I just dove into my sound settings on my lappy and found where I can change my sample and bit rates. It worked!
View attachment 31445

Now if I could find such a setting on my FireTV I'd be set...

Issue is that the app on Android (which Fire TV is based on) only supports 48khz. That's what I got in my Shield TV when I sideloaded the app.

I do have a 24 bit 96khz copy of the album and it plays fine as long as the player supports it. Not sure why Amazon is limiting some platforms and not others.

 

[sterling shoote]

I can download up to 24/192, which I can enjoy via usb connection from laptop to OPPO-205; yet, my experiments reveal iTunes delivered from laptop via Airport Express at 16/44 to prepros DAP sounds just as awesome. This has caused me to question the value of $30 downloads when I get the same pleasure from $10 album downloads. What I want is a multi-channel streaming service because my experiments also conclude multi-channel can actually be appreciated for its breadth and depth over the same music in stereo.

 

[Auditor55]

If they're the same in most respects I think it's usually a subtle difference. Altho when I heard a rip of Blade Runner 2049 with the AC3/DD soundtrack vs the Dolby TrueHD (I don't have Atmos enabled system) it wasn't a subtle difference....

AC-3 is pretty a powerful codec. I think it runs at a bit rate 384(48khz) kbps on DVD and 448 on blu rays, that's higher than Amazon highest lossy bitrate at 320. A lossy bitrate at 320 is hard to distinguish from any high res format if at all.

 

[Irvrobinson]

AC-3 is pretty a powerful codec. I think it runs at a bit rate 384(48khz) kbps on DVD and 448 on blu rays, that's higher than Amazon highest lossy bitrate at 320. A lossy bitrate at 320 is hard to distinguish from any high res format if at all.

I thought Amazon Music was 256Kbps, like iTunes. Has Amazon uprated their MP3 support while I wasn't looking?

I do agree with you though, MP3-320 has very good quality, especially if you're listening to pop music with a lot of electronic instruments. Even for massed violins in classical music I'm not sure I can reliably tell the difference. Still, I'm a lossless 16/44.1 fan.

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought Amazon Music was 256Kbps, like iTunes. Has Amazon uprated their MP3 support while I wasn't looking?

I do agree with you though, MP3-320 has very good quality, especially if you're listening to pop music with a lot of electronic instruments. Even for massed violins in classical music I'm not sure I can reliably tell the difference. Still, I'm a lossless 16/44.1 fan.

I just looked at one of the downloads I did from my "auto rips" on Amazon....it mentioned 283 kbps so I'm thinking it may be 320 vbr.

 

[lovinthehd]

AC-3 is pretty a powerful codec. I think it runs at a bit rate 384(48khz) kbps on DVD and 448 on blu rays, that's higher than Amazon highest lossy bitrate at 320. A lossy bitrate at 320 is hard to distinguish from any high res format if at all.

Yes, AC3 is fine but depends who created the mix/mastering, too. I usually term the difference between AC3/DD to 5.1 in a lossless format as subtle. But if the mix/mastering is different due the anticipated user/format....

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought Amazon Music was 256Kbps, like iTunes. Has Amazon uprated their MP3 support while I wasn't looking?

I do agree with you though, MP3-320 has very good quality, especially if you're listening to pop music with a lot of electronic instruments. Even for massed violins in classical music I'm not sure I can reliably tell the difference. Still, I'm a lossless 16/44.1 fan.

I do believe it was limited to 256 at one point a while back, tho. Not sure what format they use now and their site isn't much help, many excuses about variable conditions as to what they may be delivering to you.

 

[JengaHit]

Well, I'm used to listening to SACDs, DVD-Audio, and they do sound better to me, more organic and natural, than CD quality. So, I'm going to give it a try.

I can hear a subtle difference on some SACD recordings, on others (esp pop/rock) couldn't reliably tell the difference. The SACD on some orchestral and classical voice recordings, esp massed-choral voices, sounds slightly less strident, with less hash or glare than the CD layer, thus less fatiguging. But as I said, it seems to be recording dependent (mastering perhaps). This was comparing the SACD layer with the CD layer on hybrid SACDs by A/B'ing preamp inputs: 1) the stereo analogue outputs of my Sony DVP-NS999es, using the player's internal DAC decoding SACD; and 2) the Sony's coaxial digital out feeding PCM to my Centrance DACmini CX, inputing into my preamp.

I tried Amazon HD and Ultra HD using my LG V30+ (ESS Technology Sabre ES9228 chip) and Sennheiser HD569 cans. Amazon says Ultra HD is "up to" 24/192. The Queen Ultra HD tracks sounded smoother than the standard tracks. Same held for other rock and classical recordings that had an HD streaming option. Granted this was compared by switching the streaming settings from standard to HD/Ultra HD, and vice versa. Clumsy, but I noticed a difference. But this could be recording/mastering dependent. Not sure if I'd notice a big difference on a poorly mastered recording. I'm anxious to try HD/Ultra HD on my living rm system now, using my laptop to stream, and feeding my Centrance DAC via USB. But as for HD vs Ultra HD, since HD and Ultra HD are bundled into the same streaming setting, I don't know how I could compare them. At this point the biggest selling point is Amazon's aggressive pricing vs other lossless streaming services like Tidal, not to mention that to decode MQA I would have to buy a new DAC that hardware decodes MQA, which I'm not willing to do. (I haven't heard MQA.)

 

[mtrot]

I can hear a subtle difference on some SACD recordings, on others (esp pop/rock) couldn't reliably tell the difference. The SACD on some orchestral and classical voice recordings, esp massed-choral voices, sounds slightly less strident, with less hash or glare than the CD layer, thus less fatiguging. But as I said, it seems to be recording dependent (mastering perhaps). This was comparing the SACD layer with the CD layer on hybrid SACDs by A/B'ing preamp inputs: 1) the stereo analogue outputs of my Sony DVP-NS999es, using the player's internal DAC decoding SACD; and 2) the Sony's coaxial digital out feeding PCM to my Centrance DACmini CX, inputing into my preamp.

I tried Amazon HD and Ultra HD using my LG V30+ (ESS Technology Sabre ES9228 chip) and Sennheiser HD569 cans. Amazon says Ultra HD is "up to" 24/192. The Queen Ultra HD tracks sounded smoother than the standard tracks. Same held for other rock and classical recordings that had an HD streaming option. Granted this was compared by switching the streaming settings from standard to HD/Ultra HD, and vice versa. Clumsy, but I noticed a difference. But this could be recording/mastering dependent. Not sure if I'd notice a big difference on a poorly mastered recording. I'm anxious to try HD/Ultra HD on my living rm system now, using my laptop to stream, and feeding my Centrance DAC via USB. But as for HD vs Ultra HD, since HD and Ultra HD are bundled into the same streaming setting, I don't know how I could compare them. At this point the biggest selling point is Amazon's aggressive pricing vs other lossless streaming services like Tidal, not to mention that to decode MQA I would have to buy a new DAC that hardware decodes MQA, which I'm not willing to do. (I haven't heard MQA.)

I'm glad you mentioned that. It seems that a lot of people are questioning the value of higher res music on the basis of the quality of their remaining high frequency hearing ability. At my age, I certainly cannot hear those high frequencies. But to me, the advantage of higher res, whether music files or lossless movie codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio, is that they sound smoother, as you say, and more organic and natural in the mid range. Things like massed strings and voices.

As to using your laptop, that is what I'm doing with my HP laptop, feeding my PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/pre-amp via a relatively inexpensive Supra 2.0 USB cable. Before I got the USB cable, I was using an analog interconnect from the laptop's headphone output to an analog input on the PS Audio. I can say that using the USB cable is superior in every way to the analog interconnect, which leaves one dependent on the DAC in the laptop. Via the USB cable, the sound is much more clear, dynamic, and immediate sounding.

I will say, perhaps because of the PS Audio's clarity and accuracy, the sound seems fairly "bright" and certainly not a euphonic sound at all. I don't think I can blame that sonic signature on Amazon's service. Amazon's HD and UltraHD tracks are quite clear, with good sound stage and imaging, vocals are placed well across the stage, and you can hear multiple vocalists nicely. As I only just started using the DAC section of the PS Audio, I'm going to wait some time before making any further judgements on the sound. I'm not sure I buy into "break in", but am going to give it some time nonetheless.

 

[Pogre]

I don't buy into a lot of things Paul at PS Audio pushes...