The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
When you have some extra time, you should at least watch some of the video. Dolby Atmos (Home) doesn't have the same amount of objects as the cinema. Home version doesn't or can't use the immersive audio palette like the commercial cinema, so at home, according that gentlemen, were at best getting water down version of Dolby Atmos, even with four ceiling speakers.
Like I said, use your brain and see for yourself.

Don’t base everything on what someone says.

It’s truly simple. Go to someone’ house who has a Atmos. Listen. Judge for yourself.

Why let any videos tell you what to think?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Last night I saw “Jupiter Ascending” in 4K Atmos.

Overall I think the soundtrack was solid. There were moments that had good overhead effects (aircrafts overhead). It probably has as much overhead effects as some movies and probably more than a few movies on my List.

So I think I will put this movie on my list, although it’s not among the best Atmos.

1. Pacific Rim 2013 Atmos
2. Blade Runner 2049 2017 4K Atmos (among the best)
3. Cloverfield Paradox 2018 Atmos
4. The Equalizer 2014 Atmos
5. The Great Wall 2016 Atmos
6. Hunter Killer 2018 Atmos
7. The Matrix Trilogy 1999, 2003, 2003 4K Atmos
8. Oblivion 2013 Atmos
9. Pride and Prejudice and Zombies 2016 Atmos
10. Salt 2010 Atmos
11. Sully 2016 Atmos
12. Twilight 2008 Atmos
13. Underworld 2003 Atmos
14. Underworld Blood Wars 2016 Atmos
15. Atomic Blonde 2017 DTSX
16. Harry Potter franchise (8 movies) 2001-2011 4K DTSX
17. Black Hawk Down 2001 4K Atmos
18. 13 Hours 2016 4K Atmos
19. Gravity 2013 Atmos
20. Ready Player One 2018 Atmos
21. Robin Hood 2018 Atmos
22. Jurassic World 4K DTSX
23. Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom 4K DTSX
24. Terminator Genisys 4K Atmos
25. Alita Battle Angel 2019 4K Atmos
26. Pet Sematary (2019) 4K Atmos
27. Blade Runner 1982 4K Atmos (among the best)
28. Godzilla King of the Monsters 2019 4K Atmos (among the best)
29. Jupiter Ascending 4K Atmos
 
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VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
When you have some extra time, you should at least watch some of the video. Dolby Atmos (Home) doesn't have the same amount of objects as the cinema. Home version doesn't or can't use the immersive audio palette like the commercial cinema, so at home, according that gentlemen, were at best getting water down version of Dolby Atmos, even with four ceiling speakers.
And yet most of the reviews of the theater version I've read have been poor ('too loud to hear anything but loud' is the one that most comes to mind). I think many of the home Atmos movies I've seen have been mixed results (nothing new really as many movies had poor surround use even with 5.1), but some have been great. If anything, it's being underutilized, IMO and so the last thing I'd worry about is a limited number of objects.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Last night I saw “Jupiter Ascending” in 4K Atmos.

Overall I think the soundtrack was solid. There were moments that had good overhead effects (aircrafts overhead). It probably has as much overhead effects as some movies and probably more than a few movies on my List.

...

So I think I will put this movie on my list, although it’s not among the best Atmos.
AcuDefTechGuy, have you ever thought of using a "spoiler" list for your giant Atmos lists? This lets someone check them out if they want to see the current list and doesn't make the list take up an entire page after you post it in almost every post on here with only minor variations. For example, taken from above, it could look like this:

1. Pacific Rim 2013 Atmos
2. Blade Runner 2049 2017 4K Atmos (among the best)
3. Cloverfield Paradox 2018 Atmos
4. The Equalizer 2014 Atmos
5. The Great Wall 2016 Atmos
6. Hunter Killer 2018 Atmos
7. The Matrix Trilogy 1999, 2003, 2003 4K Atmos
8. Oblivion 2013 Atmos
9. Pride and Prejudice and Zombies 2016 Atmos
10. Salt 2010 Atmos
11. Sully 2016 Atmos
12. Twilight 2008 Atmos
13. Underworld 2003 Atmos
14. Underworld Blood Wars 2016 Atmos
15. Atomic Blonde 2017 DTSX
16. Harry Potter franchise (8 movies) 2001-2011 4K DTSX
17. Black Hawk Down 2001 4K Atmos
18. 13 Hours 2016 4K Atmos
19. Gravity 2013 Atmos
20. Ready Player One 2018 Atmos
21. Robin Hood 2018 Atmos
22. Jurassic World 4K DTSX
23. Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom 4K DTSX
24. Terminator Genisys 4K Atmos
25. Alita Battle Angel 2019 4K Atmos
26. Pet Sematary (2019) 4K Atmos
27. Blade Runner 1982 4K Atmos (among the best)
28. Godzilla King of the Monsters 2019 4K Atmos (among the best)
29. Jupiter Ascending 4K Atmos
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Audioholic
Judging by CEDIA 2019 coverage, it looks as though the rumors of Auro3D's demise were greatly exaggerated. It seems ALL the new, high level AVR's and processors coming to market include it as standard. That's a really good thing in light of Dolby removing the "Center Spread" option from DSU. Without Auromatic, most of those processors wouldn't have any upmixers that most would consider good for music.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Judging by CEDIA 2019 coverage, it looks as though the rumors of Auro3D's demise were greatly exaggerated. It seems ALL the new, high level AVR's and processors coming to market include it as standard. That's a really good thing in light of Dolby removing the "Center Spread" option from DSU. Without Auromatic, most of those processors wouldn't have any upmixers that most would consider good for music.
Are there any Auro3D contents from Walmart, Best Buy, Amazon, etc.?
 
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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Judging by CEDIA 2019 coverage, it looks as though the rumors of Auro3D's demise were greatly exaggerated. It seems ALL the new, high level AVR's and processors coming to market include it as standard. That's a really good thing in light of Dolby removing the "Center Spread" option from DSU. Without Auromatic, most of those processors wouldn't have any upmixers that most would consider good for music.
When did they remove the center spread option? Still works on my 6012, but I haven’t updated firmware for awhile... Or is it on newer models? Personally, I like DSU for music and couldn’t care less about auro3d. This is mostly because my 7.3.4 uses IC tops and I’m definitely not changing my layout. Especially considering there is basically zero content.
I have read auromatic is really good but too late for some of us.
 
ellisr63

ellisr63

Full Audioholic
Are there any Auro3D contents from Walmart, Best Buy, Amazon, etc.?
In Genes interview...it was mentioned that Auro3d has some surprises, and it sure sounded like more movies will be released worldwide in Auro3d.
We will see what happens in the next year.
I just read somewhere that BestBuy is eliminating all movies, and replacing the section with some other product. This was from someone who claimed to work there.
 
ellisr63

ellisr63

Full Audioholic
I
When did they remove the center spread option? Still works on my 6012, but I haven’t updated firmware for awhile... Or is it on newer models? Personally, I like DSU for music and couldn’t care less about auro3d. This is mostly because my 7.3.4 uses IC tops and I’m definitely not changing my layout. Especially considering there is basically zero content.
I have read auromatic is really good but too late for some of us.
If you go to Auro3Ds website they show how to arrange your speakers for Atmos, and Auro3D.
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Audioholic
Are there any Auro3D contents from Walmart, Best Buy, Amazon, etc.?
Irrelevant for use of Auromatic for upmixing. That's what I was pointing out--how ironic it would have been for all of these new top of the line 16 channel processors to come out and not have a single mode that can play music well using more than two speakers. With Auro, they're set.

But yes, I've bought quite a few native Auro3d music blue rays from Amazon. They usually ship from Germany, UK or Norway, but they get here eventually....
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Didn't China adopt Auro 3D as their broadcast standard audio or at least as one of them last year? It was the only significant news I recall about Auro. That might explain AVR adoption as China is an emerging market for such gear.

As for layouts, incompatibility is exaggerated, IMO. Side heights are essentially top middle in a 7.1+ layout or rear height in a 5.1 layout and it can be configured as rear height. I wouldn't be surprised if they adopt a tops mode in newer gear either as strict alignment is probably only an issue (if at all) for dual quad recordings (music). Panned (movies) is no better or worse IMO with either layout as the only thing that happens is the object is moved inward or outward a little bit offscreen (i.e. So what?) where you can't verify the absolute position anyway and it varies by seat/person in a relative way regardless.

If more movies show up, great. If not, oh well. The ten movies I have sound great and Red Tails has some of the best straight overhead flying sounds I've heard in a movie
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
X-Men Dark Phoenix 2019 4K Atmos.

Watched this movie last night. Among the best soundtracks I’ve heard. I heard a lot of cool and fun overhead sound effects. Just great sound field all around. The bass was absolutely INSANE. My wife complained that the bass was too often too scary. :D

Definitely a WARNING for weak subs! :eek:

One thing I hate about most comic book (Marvel/DC) movies is that they seem lame on the overhead sound effects. Not the case at all with Dark Phoenix. Someone had a blast mixing the overhead for this movie.

So if you want to show off your Atmos Sound system and want to watch a Marvel or DC superhero movie, I think Dark Phoenix is your best bet.

Dark Phoenix absolutely gets to be on my Favorite Atmos Blu-ray List.

1. Pacific Rim 2013 Atmos
2. Blade Runner 2049 2017 4K Atmos (among the best)
3. Cloverfield Paradox 2018 Atmos
4. The Equalizer 2014 Atmos
5. The Great Wall 2016 Atmos
6. Hunter Killer 2018 Atmos
7. The Matrix Trilogy 1999, 2003, 2003 4K Atmos
8. Oblivion 2013 Atmos
9. Pride and Prejudice and Zombies 2016 Atmos
10. Salt 2010 Atmos
11. Sully 2016 Atmos
12. Twilight 2008 Atmos
13. Underworld 2003 Atmos
14. Underworld Blood Wars 2016 Atmos
15. Atomic Blonde 2017 DTSX
16. Harry Potter franchise (8 movies) 2001-2011 4K DTSX
17. Black Hawk Down 2001 4K Atmos
18. 13 Hours 2016 4K Atmos
19. Gravity 2013 Atmos
20. Ready Player One 2018 Atmos
21. Robin Hood 2018 Atmos
22. Jurassic World 4K DTSX
23. Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom 4K DTSX
24. Terminator Genisys 4K Atmos
25. Alita Battle Angel 2019 4K Atmos
26. Pet Sematary (2019) 4K Atmos
27. Blade Runner 1982 4K Atmos (among the best)
28. Godzilla King of the Monsters 2019 4K Atmos (among the best)
29. Jupiter Ascending 4K Atmos
30. X-Men Dark Phoenix 2019 4K Atmos (Best Atmos Sound from Marvel/DC)
 
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VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
To each their own, but IMO Neural X is AWFUL for music. It tends to put half the music in the front height speakers where it doesn't belong. It sounds fake and forced. I'd much rather use DSU or Auromatic than Neural X for music. Movies are a different story.

I actually use matrixed front wides plus dialog lift for stereo music. This cancels many side and ceiling reflections (acting like a giant array source) and widening and stretching the soundstage in interesting ways without fundamentally changing the imaging. I get imaging to about 100 degrees without side surrounds wth many albums. It sounds similar to Sonic Holography to me with my Carver line source ribbons and of course works in movie modes as well.

As for Auro, I'll wait and see rather than poke fun at it, particularly since its movies have all ben well done (I've got ten in Auro) and the music recordings are simply holographic sounding. I suppose if you already invested in Yamaha then you have monetary incentives to hope it fails in the long run since you cannot use it without buying a new AVR. I'm set either way.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Judging by CEDIA 2019 coverage, it looks as though the rumors of Auro3D's demise were greatly exaggerated. It seems ALL the new, high level AVR's and processors coming to market include it as standard. That's a really good thing in light of Dolby removing the "Center Spread" option from DSU. Without Auromatic, most of those processors wouldn't have any upmixers that most would consider good for music.
Could you provide a link or list to what you're talking about? I searched and searched news articles on Cedia 2019 and found nary a mention of Auro 3D save a couple of high end (read not many new users) AVRs ad processors.

Until Yamaha and even sound bars adopt Auro, it will trail even low presence DTS for support, let alone titles. Since the parent company of Denon and Marantz bought Onkyo, one could assume at least some Onkyo products might get Auro support in the future, but even Denon and Marantz don't offer it on lower end products (unlike Atmos and X that are on everything).

Worse yet, Auro's web site hardly get updated (I keep checking it). They didn't even have any significant theater releases this year (compared to dozens in years past), no major movie releases on BD this year (two regional movies) and only a half dozen music releases (I hope you like prince).
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Audioholic
No, with NeuralX, you are SET.
As long as you don't like a front soundstage or care about the lead singer occasionally floating around the room. :)

Sorry, but you're in the minority with that one.
Could you provide a link or list to what you're talking about?
I'm mainly talking about the newer higher end processors. The new Monolith, JBL, Audiocontrol, and Anthem all have it. The only newer 16 channel I can think of that doesn't have it is the Emotiva one that came out about a year ago...and still doesn't work....
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
I did notice those ones have it and I guess that's a good thing, but if Yamaha would add it, then you might be more likely to see US titles, IMO.
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Audioholic
I guess we could go back and forth about who’s right or in the minority on the best upmixer, but it’s pointless.
Or, people might actually learn something from the discussion. Isn't that what this thread is for? Let's evaluate what they're doing a bit. Play this track in Stereo, DSU, Auro and Neural:X:


In the first three modes, the click sounds as if it's coming from the front center, as a lead singer typically would. With Neural:X, it sounds like it's coming from the VOG speaker...even if you don't have a VOG speaker....

When listening to many sorts of music, the strong, direct sound coming from the surrounds tends to move the front soundstage into the middle of the room. This makes it sound very unnatural, IMHO.

Another thing I've noticed--listen to this track with the speakers on your front soundstage unplugged so you can hear exactly what's coming from the surrounds:


The phrase "electronically garbled" comes to mind. Whatever that is, there's no way that's making the music sound better.

Anyway, those are some of my observations.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
OK, out of curiosity I played the youtube videos on my system from my Shield. The metronome one was VERY handy as it made it really easy to set my "dialog lift" levels on the mixer to be exactly the same height as the left/right stereo lifted channels (i.e. switch from Stereo mode to DSU to compare or more precisely use the "Center Spread ON/OFF" mode to change it instantly. Now I can tell exactly a ZERO difference between the center channel being used for music or not being used from the MLP. They sound identical (helps to have an identical center channel speaker). I had to adjust the center out level as well, of course (by raising the mix sent to the heights, that made the center overall too loud). This also made center dialog clearer for the second row center chair (which really needs raised up a bit with a platform to have an eye view of the center speaker). With more output from above, it sounds quite acceptable now even without raising it up and it's hard to tell from that distance the precise height of the dialog even if it's a bit higher.

Anyway, back to the modes. Yes, the metronome sounded a bit "weird" in Neural X. I would not say it sounded like the VOG speaker, however (someone have their upper speakers turned up too much?) It actually sounded like it was coming from almost everywhere with a bit more in front of me than around me, so kind of odd. DSU and Auro more or less sounded the same as stereo in its position.

The Careless Whisper song.... I think Auro sounded the best, but that might be because it's both louder and has more bass output at the same settings (kind of annoying really when you want them to "match" as best they can). I had to turn Auro's depth up to like 12-14 to really hear an enlarged room effect (medium/large had less effect, I think). It basically sounds like the room gets a bit bigger (subtle reflections and some reinforcement). Neural X comes out slightly higher in elevation in Neural X than DSU for me, but they weren't as different as I thought they would sound. Yes, putting my ear to the surround speaker you could hear slightly odd sounds (stripped reflections or something), but at the seating positions, it didn't actually sound that different to me.

Instead, I put on some material I'm really familiar with. I put on "Father's Son" by Tori Amos and compared. Again, Auro cranks the bass and levels so I had to adjust the volume down and try to ignore the extra bass and listen to placement of sounds instead. That song has overdub echoes of Tori's voice that in stereo repeat what she says into the room a bit and towards the sides (out of phase). In Auro, the room sounded a bit larger and more reverb. That was it. With DSU, the overdub repeats of some of the lyrics sounded often BEHIND me to the sides going well into the back of the room (one set was more towards the front and sides, but most were definitely behind me). Neural X also put them further back into the room than stereo, but not as cleanly/clearly, IMO and the overall soundstage was slightly higher. My preference was by FAR for DSU on that song. That effect gave the song a really neat surround effect that was plainly audible and clear.

I put on a more rock-like song by her on the same album (American Doll Posse) called "Code Red". This song felt kind of odd with DSU and/or Neural X surround effects, IMO. It starts putting instruments around me that probably didn't belong there unlike the previous song that just did vocals and percussion and what not in the surround channels. Auro did the room thing, but again the sub level had to be adjusted to keep it from being overpowering. I'd probably set the sub level on a memory preset for Auro or something if I was going to use it often for music as it's like 4-6dB higher or something than other modes. DSU was the least offensive of the bunch, but I think I preferred stereo on this one.

Billy Idol's Cyberpunk album has a lot of out of phase effects in places that can give almost 90 degree effects with just stereo (might be Q-sound or something similar) and so the surround modes had less effect with those sounds (they imaged more or less in the same location with or without), but some other parts were shoved back that weren't in stereo. I'm not sure if that was good or bad. It probably would depend on the song.

Overall, I'd say I'd have to try the modes to be sure which I preferred, but stereo is always a safe bet. I think Auro-3D works well for jazz/live stuff where you want to liven up the room and/or extend it back for more than one row of seats. For everything else, I'd either go DSU or stereo. Neural X wasn't as bad as I remembered, but it did tend to put piano and things very high in the air in the front like I was sitting below the stage or something. DSU kept it more or less at ear height (or just above near the center of the screen due to dialog lift, although phase effects sometimes puts them lower regardless for some sounds, which works out oddly well as it gives more separation for some sound effects, but keeps major sounds and dialog at screen height so the voices and sounds come out of the screen instead of below it.

I also tried a modified Multi-channel stereo mode (reduced overheads) and it worked well for the back rows to liven the room up (kind of like Auro on steroids), but overall wasn't as clean sounding to me as stereo for the front.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The Careless Whisper song.... Auro sounded both louder and has more bass output at the same settings (kind of annoying really when you want them to "match" as best they can).

Instead, I put on some material I'm really familiar with. I put on "Father's Son" by Tori Amos and compared. Again, Auro cranks the bass and levels so I had to adjust the volume down and try to ignore the extra bass and listen to placement of sounds instead.

I put on a more rock-like song by her on the same album (American Doll Posse) called "Code Red". Auro did the room thing, but again the sub level had to be adjusted to keep it from being overpowering.

Auro-3D liven up the room.
That does sound ANNOYING. Who wants a mode that keeps on cranking up the volume and bass level? :D
 
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