Bi-wire/bi-amp

[PENG]

Look what I found.

View attachment 31157View attachment 31158View attachment 31159

Those measurements are what convinced me to use 120 hz crossover. It's an audible difference too.

Yeah, we have had that discussion long time ago and it's easy to forget. So unless you have a lot of freedom to crawl the subs and the towers, 120 Hz should work best for you. Localization is not an issue because you have one sub beside each of the left and right Ultras if I remember right.

One thing I noticed, and we didn't know way back then, that the App would put a ramp down from 20 Hz. If you use the latest version now, they have fixed it. If you still have the old file on the app, you should be able to reload it and the down ramp should be gone. If you have cancelled the app already, I am not sure if the old files would still be there when you purchase it again.

With Audyssey, the app is indispensable if you don't like the effects of the MRC dip and the EQ'ed part above your room transition frequency.

 

[Sparkus]

I've definitely re positioned both intentionally and unintentionally. The difference was not subtle, it was noticeable by anyone. That solved, other than a definitive 'why' I'll be giving thought to securing the post caps so they don't back off and into finding subs that'll serve this space.

 

[Sparkus]

@Pogre and others convinced me originally. Honestly, I have reservations about 2.1 or 2.2 channel music but I don't think having subs is a mistake. I get the concept, not the technical aspects yet, of subs taking the load off the speakers, that's an electricians terminology.
I think the big issue now, regarding subs, is figuring out what to get. I have some space disabilities that I'm considering.
You know, it's hard to swallow paying almost 3 times or more for subs than I did for these RTi's. LOL. Seems upside down.
I am shopping and it's really tough when you don't understand all the specs on the equip but Audioholics is a very good source of info, I'm really gaining a lot from the videos, posts and these forums.

 

[lovinthehd]

@Pogre and others convinced me originally. Honestly, I have reservations about 2.1 or 2.2 channel music but I don't think having subs is a mistake. I get the concept, not the technical aspects yet, of subs taking the load off the speakers, that's an electricians terminology.
I think the big issue now, regarding subs, is figuring out what to get. I have some space disabilities that I'm considering.
You know, it's hard to swallow paying almost 3 times or more for subs than I did for these RTi's. LOL. Seems upside down.
I am shopping and it's really tough when you don't understand all the specs on the equip but Audioholics is a very good source of info, I'm really gaining a lot from the videos, posts and these forums.

If you have time and facility a diy sub build can save ya some cash with excellent results depending on what sort of finishing skills or even finish you desire on the box (which affects commercial subs some too)...but if the only time you wish to spend is shopping, probably not.

 

[Pogre]

I

@Pogre and others convinced me originally. Honestly, I have reservations about 2.1 or 2.2 channel music but I don't think having subs is a mistake. I get the concept, not the technical aspects yet, of subs taking the load off the speakers, that's an electricians terminology.
I think the big issue now, regarding subs, is figuring out what to get. I have some space disabilities that I'm considering.
You know, it's hard to swallow paying almost 3 times or more for subs than I did for these RTi's. LOL. Seems upside down.
I am shopping and it's really tough when you don't understand all the specs on the equip but Audioholics is a very good source of info, I'm really gaining a lot from the videos, posts and these forums.

I know you posted your room dimensions already, but if you could again once more and let us know if you're room is open to others, like kitchen, hallway or another room without a door. Do you have high ceilings or any size restrictions as far as where you might be able to put a sub (or 2). I like ported subs, but they're necessarily bigger for them to work.

 

[Sparkus]

You hit it with opening to another room.
Dimensions: 14x15x8.
There is an 8' by 7' opening leading into another room which is the same dimensions. That's what preys on my mind. Which I assume the HSU's you recommend or anything that size would take care of that (?) I'm not sure where I'd put them. LOL. I'm kinda trapped with a given configuration being I must put the system opposite me in the 14' dimension.
Effectively, I'm lacking a 4th wall.

 

[Pogre]

Oh, the money you spend on subwoofers... You made out on the speakers so I know it seems off kilter to spend a big chunk of change on a sub(s) to go with them, but it's not uncommon. Speakers and subwoofers are where the bulk of your audio budget really should go as those are 2 things where spending more actually yields audible results. Amplification, DACs and electronics if designed properly and functioning correctly are all pretty much sound the same and work equally well.

That said, I know how you feel. I ordered 2 big expensive subs with a lot of reservations myself. They were worth it. I think once you get set up you're going to get what you were hoping for with the amplifier.

 

[Sparkus]

I believe I will. So the space thing is all I need to figure out.

You know, I'm wondering. I'm by myself in this house now...it's a small place, basically 5 - 14x15 rooms with a kitchen. 2 rooms upstairs that are unused. One is a rectangle with no obstacles, a chimney on one wall, newly drywalled. I wonder if I shouldn't just move the system up there and make that the room. I got a 50" plasma I can have down here and even the old technics with a Sony 5.1.
Going to be remodeling these rooms this winter anyway...
Would that type of space be better? No furniture, except your chair and a beverage table , oh, and a chimney?

 

[Pogre]

You hit it with opening to another room.
Dimensions: 14x15x8.
There is an 8' by 7' opening leading into another room which is the same dimensions. That's what preys on my mind. Which I assume the HSU's you recommend or anything that size would take care of that (?) I'm not sure where I'd put them. LOL. I'm kinda trapped with a given configuration being I must put the system opposite me in the 14' dimension.
Effectively, I'm lacking a 4th wall.

So you're open enough to the other room that you might as well add up the dimensions it sounds like. Basically 28x30x8 then? You're flirting with the same ft^3 as me. That's a big space and it'll want big subs.

At minimum I'm thinking a pair of VTF 2 MK5s (Dual Drive Package) with a slant towards a pair of VTF 3 MK5s. With both of those links the pricing is for 2 subwoofers and does not include shipping, which is fairly substantial because they're big and heavy. I think if you put them in your cart it'll calculate the shipping for you before you pay if you want to get an idea like, right now what it'll be. If you go with just a single sub definitely a 15" ported sub and find a prime spot for it, it can work. I'd plan on a second sometime down the road tho for sure.

Even with shipping their prices are going to be hard to beat, unless you want to go the diy route like @lovinthehd suggested. He built 4 of his own sealed subs and is really happy with them. There are some proven, quality kits out there with precut panels and they're modeled to go with a specific speaker too. Hsu is still close in price to diy for a single sub, but when you build multiples and share amplifiers the savings become more pronounced. Do you happen to live in or near California? I ask because Hsu is located there and you could save some bucks in shipping costs if you can make the drive.

 

[Pogre]

I believe I will. So the space thing is all I need to figure out.

You know, I'm wondering. I'm by myself in this house now...it's a small place, basically 5 - 14x15 rooms with a kitchen. 2 rooms upstairs that are unused. One is a rectangle with no obstacles, a chimney on one wall, newly drywalled. I wonder if I shouldn't just move the system up there and make that the room. I got a 50" plasma I can have down here and even the old technics with a Sony 5.1.
Going to be remodeling these rooms this winter anyway...
Would that type of space be better? No furniture, except your chair and a beverage table , oh, and a chimney?

I don't know if there is such a thing as the perfect space. I know a perfect cube is no bueno, but aside from that it's hard to predict what a room will do without some precise measurements and a whole bunch of math. That's why some of us utilize the sub crawl to find a good spot to put a sub. Reverse physics, lol. Takes some of the guesswork out of it.

Having carpet, furniture, curtains and objects in the room are usually a good thing and tame down a lot of nasty reflections. An untreated room with no furniture or carpet would be very difficult. You want some of that stuff in there to absorb reflections. You can get room treatments that I've read on here can help very much, but I wouldn't worry about that until you're all set up and dialed in. Some rooms it's almost a must and others not so much.

A chimney? Now there's a question I haven't been asked before. I'm gonna go with it probably won't be nearly as big a factor as the openings to other rooms, but I could be wrong. Someone else will be able to answer that better than I.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't know if there is such a thing as the perfect space. I know a perfect cube is no bueno, but aside from that it's hard to predict what a room will do without some precise measurements and a whole bunch of math. That's why some of us utilize the sub crawl to find a good spot to put a sub. Reverse physics, lol. Takes some of the guesswork out of it.

Having carpet, furniture, curtains and objects in the room are usually a good thing and tame down a lot of nasty reflections. An untreated room with no furniture or carpet would be very difficult. You want some of that stuff in there to absorb reflections. You can get room treatments that I've read on here can help very much, but I wouldn't worry about that until you're all set up and dialed in. Some rooms it's almost a must and others not so much.

A chimney? Now there's a question I haven't been asked before. I'm gonna go with it probably won't be nearly as big a factor as the openings to other rooms, but I could be wrong. Someone else will be able to answer that better than I.

Not having a choice of a custom room, but there's some info here that sounds familiar from past reading....http://www.diymovierooms.com/Home-Theater/Design/Room-Shape-and-Size

 

[snakeeyes]

This is one of the main issues I’m facing with my16x16.5 room. It’s square.

I’m a little hesitant to add my 4 ceiling speakers until I have my base layer 5.1 right.

 

[ryanosaur]

This is one of the main issues I’m facing with my16x16.5 room. It’s square.

I’m a little hesitant to add my 4 ceiling speakers until I have my base layer 5.1 right.

I like take it easy... too hard I think to make certain you've got those right if you are still playing with the bottom layer. I'm in the same situation... I could mount 1 pair of Atmos now... but I'm still dialing the rest!

 

[snakeeyes]

I like take it easy... too hard I think to make certain you've got those right if you are still playing with the bottom layer. I'm in the same situation... I could mount 1 pair of Atmos now... but I'm still dialing the rest!

Ya definitely still tweaking mine but it’s getting closer. One piece at a time like Johnny Cash.

 

[Sparkus]

Alright, I'm gonna pull the trigger on the HSU's tomorrow. You hit it right on about price.
So know, thinking ahead. Center speaker make should match mains? Made to go together?

 

[lovinthehd]

Ideally all three across the front would be identical speakers....but tv's make that difficult (but an acoustically transparent screen no problem). Compromise would be to have at least from same series of speaker designed to work together....

 

[Pogre]

Alright, I'm gonna pull the trigger on the HSU's tomorrow. You hit it right on about price.
So know, thinking ahead. Center speaker make should match mains? Made to go together?

Which ones did you decide on?

And yes, ideally you want a center speaker or bookshelf from the same line for a good match. Might be something you could ask Polk and see what they recommend. Like HD said, in a perfect scenario a third tower would be a perfect match, but not many people have room under/over the tv for it so the compromise is a smaller speaker like a bookshelf or a dedicated center channel from the same line. On the plus side they're generally not as expensive as another tower would be. I have the room so I'm using a bookshelf myself and it's a very good match.

 

[Sparkus]

I'm definitely keeping the 3rd tower in mind. Already figuring on re working the shelves things sit on to fit the subs anyway.
Here's something. Anytime I listened to music with the current sub, I'd focus on the distortion. I ignored it just now...yes it would be an improvement. Too hard to ignore the distortion for long, but it seems like the mid was a little more articulate. I don't have the terminology to express it any better. Does sound better.

 

[Pogre]

I'm definitely keeping the 3rd tower in mind. Already figuring on re working the shelves things sit on to fit the subs anyway.
Here's something. Anytime I listened to music with the current sub, I'd focus on the distortion. I ignored it just now...yes it would be an improvement. Too hard to ignore the distortion for long, but it seems like the mid was a little more articulate. I don't have the terminology to express it any better. Does sound better.

One thing that got me was at first I didn't think the new subs were as loud as the old ones and wanted to turn them up more to compensate. I was so used to the old subs' distorted sound that I thought something was missing. It took me a little listening to realize what was missing - the distortion.They didn't seem as loud because the distortion was gone. The bass was still there but a lot more subtle. Not boomy and in your face, but more of a supporting role like it's supposed to be. It was an eye opener and I've been pushing quality subwoofage ever since, lol.

 

[snakeeyes]

Alright, I'm gonna pull the trigger on the HSU's tomorrow. You hit it right on about price.
So know, thinking ahead. Center speaker make should match mains? Made to go together?

Center or third speaker with same tweeter from same brand is a good idea.