Yamaha Owners’ Thread (AVR, Pre-pro, Amp)

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't have Atmos so I'm not sure if there would be any real advantage in using that over Straight.

You don’t even need Atmos speakers to enjoy NeuralX.

I think everyone who has been around long enough has used the old Dolby ProLogic and DTS NeoX varieties. I’ve tried them many times with disappointment.

The first time I used NeuralX was on two 2CH TV series - Handmaid’s Tale and Castle Rock. They were only 2CH. Yet NeuralX made them sound almost like Discrete DTS 5.1. I couldn’t believe it. The Center Dialogue was awesome. The surround sounds was cool.

There are times when NeuralX sounds just like DSU. Sometimes NeuralX might be too aggressive and DSU might be more appropriate.

But for the most part, I use NeuralX for just about everything except for real Atmos contents. For fake Atmos contents on Netflix and other sources, I use NeuralX.

 

[Otto Plyot]

Thanks again. As soon as I get my questions answered from Yamaha about Scene Settings and YPAO:Flat/Through I'll start playing around with DSur and DTS Neural.

 

[snakeeyes]

You don’t even need Atmos speakers to enjoy NeuralX.

I think everyone who has been around long enough has used the old Dolby ProLogic and DTS NeoX varieties. I’ve tried them many times with disappointment.

The first time I used NeuralX was on two 2CH TV series - Handmaid’s Tale and Castle Rock. They were only 2CH. Yet NeuralX made them sound almost like Discrete DTS 5.1. I couldn’t believe it. The Center Dialogue was awesome. The surround sounds was cool.

There are times when NeuralX sounds just like DSU. Sometimes NeuralX might be too aggressive and DSU might be more appropriate.

But for the most part, I use NeuralX for just about everything except for real Atmos contents. For fake Atmos contents on Netflix and other sources, I use NeuralX.

I’m noticing a slight difference in music favoring Neutral X in 5.1, but I’ll keep listening to be sure.

 

[snakeeyes]

okay what I notice is NeuralX engages the center more than DSU for music. (Which I like). The surrounds also seem more engaging too. (Also like that too).

I didn’t try adjusting the dts center to wide (possible that would be more like DSU) as that’s a pain to change back and forth. (Maybe something “scenes” could do?).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’m noticing a slight difference in music favoring Neutral X in 5.1, but I’ll keep listening to be sure.

NeuralX seems more aggressive to me. Like 100% Whole milk.

DSU is too laid back for me -- like 1% Low Fat milk.

Maybe DSU is for "SERIOUS or CRITICAL" and NeuralX is for "ENTERTAINMENT and ENJOYMENT".

I also think NeuralX is more like SACD/DVD-A/DTS CD/Blu-ray music.

 

[Otto Plyot]

The one thing I really dislike about Yamaha, and it's not the product, it's the manual. Maybe that's true for the other receiver mfrs as well. Level 1 support just pulls out their copy of the manual to walk you thru some things. Level 2 actually has folks who REALLY know the receiver inside and out, so they can give you more indepth instructions on what you can do, and have a much better understanding of audio in general, at least that's been my experience. As to DTS Center, I don't really think you can toggle back and forth using the Scene settings, so yeah, you'd have to go deeper into the Menu to change, which would be a pain.

When I use my receiver for internet radio, which isn't that often, I find that the 7-Channel setting works best for my ears and configuration. I have a dedicated receiver downstairs for music only so I don't bother using the A-780 for music other than movie soundtracks. To be honest, I don't use anywhere near half of what the receiver can do because it just doesn't fit in with what we do. I have a Yamaha HTiB downstairs for the LCD home theater and that still works very well for how we use it, which is mostly for network tv and occasional streaming when we are too lazy to go upstairs where the A-780 is the hub for the 65 C8.

 

[Otto Plyot]

NeuralX seems more aggressive to me. Like 100% Whole milk.

DSU is too laid back for me -- like 1% Low Fat milk.

Maybe DSU is for "SERIOUS or CRITICAL" and NeuralX is for "ENTERTAINMENT and ENJOYMENT".

I also think NeuralX is more like SACD/DVD-A/DTS CD/Blu-ray music.

I like Fat Free Milk so maybe I should stick with Straight

 

[snakeeyes]

NeuralX seems more aggressive to me. Like 100% Whole milk.

DSU is too laid back for me -- like 1% Low Fat milk.

Maybe DSU is for "SERIOUS or CRITICAL" and NeuralX is for "ENTERTAINMENT and ENJOYMENT".

I also think NeuralX is more like SACD/DVD-A/DTS CD/Blu-ray music.

For me 2.1 for serious music but NeuralX does sound better to me than DSU for music.

You’re getting me thinking about NeuralX for Movies.... I’ll try that next.

 

[Trell]

For me 2.1 for serious music but NeuralX does sound better to me than DSU for music.

You’re getting me thinking about NeuralX for Movies.... I’ll try that next.

I'm a bit bemused to read here now and then about "serious" listening has just to be about the number of channels the recording was released with, preferably stereo (your 2.1 mostly disqualifies you )

If it sounds good to you, why not, but sounding good does not imply that the performance/content is good. In my mind, a "serious" listening is about the performance as such and not just the media it was presented with.

That said, I'm a sucker for for good SACD MCH, but I've had my share of excellent recordings but boooooring music.

 

[snakeeyes]

I'm a bit bemused to read here now and then about "serious" listening has just to be about the number of channels the recording was released with, preferably stereo (your 2.1 mostly disqualifies you )

If it sounds good to you, why not, but sounding good does not imply that the performance/content is good. In my mind, a "serious" listening is about the performance as such and not just the media it was presented with.

That said, I'm a sucker for for good SACD MCH, but I've had my share of excellent recordings but boooooring music.

Oh I have several SACDs and DVDAudio and DTS music discs. I wasn’t trying to listen to those in 2.1. LOL

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For me 2.1 for serious music but NeuralX does sound better to me than DSU for music.

You’re getting me thinking about NeuralX for Movies.... I’ll try that next.

NeuralX is by far the #1 software "feature" I use.

I mean even if I watch an Atmos movie and I can't hear anything overhead, which tells me it's a fake Atmos movie, I turn on NeuralX.

Every video content with 2Ch sound gets NeuralX 100%.

 

[snakeeyes]

NeuralX is by far the #1 software "feature" I use.

I mean even if I watch an Atmos movie and I can't hear anything overhead, which tells me it's a fake Atmos movie, I turn on NeuralX.

Every video content with 2Ch sound gets NeuralX 100%.

I’ll chime in after I get setup for 5.1.4.

In just 5.1, I’m not really finding a difference, but maybe need to try a 2.0 source on cable and try upmixer to 5.1.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"serious" listening

To me, the phrase "Serious or Critical Listening" just means listening to something intently with all your focus and attention, instead of background music. So it doesn't have to be 2Ch or 9Ch or whatever.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’ll chime in after I get setup for 5.1.4.

In just 5.1, I’m not really finding a difference, but maybe need to try a 2.0 source on cable and try upmixer to 5.1.

If your system is 5.1 and you watch 5.1 contents, then NeuralX won't do anything.

If your system is 5.1.4 and you watch 5.1 contents, or if your system is 5.1 and you watch 2.0 contents, then NeuralX is your new best friend.

 

[Trell]

To me, the phrase "Serious or Critical Listening" just means listening to something intently with all your focus and attention, instead of background music. So it doesn't have to be 2Ch or 9Ch or whatever.

Agree, though my focus and attention tends to wander now and then

My not so very original point is that is so very easy to concentrate on the technical sound reproduction while not paying the same attention to the actual performance. And I am certainly guilty of that, as an example, I bought the SACD Tear For Fears: Songs From the Big Chair, which I found VERY thin sounding but remember it with fondness from the time I was younger.

Another was listening to Radio Luxembourg on AM when I was kid, and that on a tube radio! I loved it!

 

[snakeeyes]

Agree, though my focus and attention tends to wander now and then

My not so very original point is that is so very easy to concentrate on the technical sound reproduction while not paying the same attention to the actual performance. And I am certainly guilty of that, as an example, I bought the SACD Tear For Fears: Songs From the Big Chair, which I found VERY thin sounding but remember it with fondness from the time I was younger.

Another was listening to Radio Luxembourg on AM when I was kid, and that on a tube radio! I loved it!

That’s a 2014 remix in 5.1.

On the Blu-ray Audio (not SACD), it also has the original mix remastered in 2.0, as well as, the 2014 5.1 remix.

I do think the 2014 5.1 mix bounces around a little too much. (At least on the Blu-ray Audio version)

 

[snakeeyes]

To me, the phrase "Serious or Critical Listening" just means listening to something intently with all your focus and attention, instead of background music. So it doesn't have to be 2Ch or 9Ch or whatever.

So when I’m watching Pacific Rim 2013 and listening to every sound effect detail, I’ll count that too.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

NeuralX is by far the #1 software "feature" I use.

I mean even if I watch an Atmos movie and I can't hear anything overhead, which tells me it's a fake Atmos movie, I turn on NeuralX.

Every video content with 2Ch sound gets NeuralX 100%.

I’ve been meaning to ask you what you mean by “fake Atmos”.


For me , I went back and forth a lot with DSU, and DTSNX. In the end I found that I mostly prefer DSU. Ime, dtsNX acts like PLIIx in that it places instruments where they don’t belong. Listening to something like NIN where a lot of the sounds are beeps and buzzes and weird sound effect kind of stuff, it’s great. However music that’s composed of normal instruments, it can sometimes put them in odd places. As a musician, I don’t like that because as a critical listener() it takes me out of focus. In any case, both are better than PLIIx. However they don’t have the adjustability, although DSU does have the center spread option which I like.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’ve been meaning to ask you what you mean by “fake Atmos”.


For me , I went back and forth a lot with DSU, and DTSNX. In the end I found that I mostly prefer DSU. Ime, dtsNX acts like PLIIx in that it places instruments where they don’t belong. Listening to something like NIN where a lot of the sounds are beeps and buzzes and weird sound effect kind of stuff, it’s great. However music that’s composed of normal instruments, it can sometimes put them in odd places. As a musician, I don’t like that because as a critical listener() it takes me out of focus. In any case, both are better than PLIIx. However they don’t have the adjustability, although DSU does have the center spread option which I like.

Fake Atmos = Little or no overhead sounds

As for NeuralX vs DSU, like all things, there’s something for everyone whatever their reasons are and there’s no wrong answer.

The salient thing is your personal enjoyment.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So when I’m watching Pacific Rim 2013 and listening to every sound effect detail, I’ll count that too.

That movie has tons of overhead sounds (Atmos).