Does anyone use digital music

[Sparkus]

The second question is you wouldn't use it to rip the music...you would use it to send it to the AVR. The digital ends at the output of the digital device...unless it's like optical...but plugging into an analog input on your
AVR you need an analog signal. So, the DAC 's quality I question is in the conversion from digital to analog. You rip on your computer...your sound card, be it on board or expansion dictates the quality of the conversion. The question is, if we are using digital music...are all DAC's created equal?

 

[lovinthehd]

The dac in your avr should be fine for playback. You're using it now if you're using hdmi from computer to avr. The dac in your computer has nothing to do with ripping, tho.

ps Optical is just another way to send digital signals.

 

[Sparkus]

Yes. The DAC isn't in the AVR it's in the computer sound chip. It is fine...Here...look at this;

I'm actually not trying to convince anyone of anything or find an answer...more of an open question. Example; it's a given that Mac/Apple are geared technologically for entertainment and AV than are PC's. PC's allow us upgrade but they are business built. So if you play music thru you system via an IPad or Mac...you may find it sounds much better than if played thru a PC with a sound card.

 

[lovinthehd]

The DAC in your computer isn't in a separate box is it? (I didn't watch the video and often don't for people yakking about audio, rather get your written version). If you're sending the audio digitally via the hdmi cable from computer to avr, the dac active is the one in the avr, not the computer. Same for ripping, the dac in your computer isn't involved. Or I'm missing your point....

 

[sterling shoote]

I've ripped all of my CDs and LPs to my PC's iTunes Library in ALAC format. Those recordings reside among MP3, AAC, and AIFF recordings up to 24/192. I enjoy these recordings via 1. Airplay at 16/44.1 processed by my prepro, 2. Creative Sound Blaster usb to S/PDIF up sampling to 24/96 processed by my prepro, and 3. usb to OPPO 205 DAC up sampling to 24/192. All of these means to music from iTunes are satisfactory; yet, my impression is the usb to OPPO DAC routing is most compelling. I sense it delivers more detail and acoustic music has a more natural tone. At any rate, I do not perceive that I would hear an improved sound from CD playback via a CD Player, since my prepro's DAP and OPPO DAC are very good. I do however like multi-channel SACDs and because I do not have the means to rip them to my computer, or get multi-channel downloaded files of any type from my computer to home theatre system gaplessly, I do use my OPPO 205 to play SACDs. Now, here's my advice, don't buy a CD Player. Instead buy a new Sony UBD Player, which will play all disc media out there to your DAC where ever it may reside, even multi-channel SACD if you have an AVR. Also, consider iTunes as a music library for your PC or Apple Music if you're running an Apple computer. Today's Mastered for iTunes music is just spectacular and less money than downloads from HDTracks or Acoustic Sounds.

 

[sterling shoote]

Yes. The DAC isn't in the AVR it's in the computer sound chip. It is fine...Here...look at this;

I'm actually not trying to convince anyone of anything or find an answer...more of an open question. Example; it's a given that Mac/Apple are geared technologically for entertainment and AV than are PC's. PC's allow us upgrade but they are business built. So if you play music thru you system via an IPad or Mac...you may find it sounds much better than if played thru a PC with a sound card.

You are confused. If you are playing music from an iPhone or iPad to AVR, prepro, or stereo receiver via Airplay there's no association to your computer's music library.
And, if you have a wired connection from iPhone or iPad (analog or digital) there's no association to your computer's music library. Also, whether your iTunes Library resides on an Apple Computer or a PC, the digital output to a DAC, stand alone or in an AVR or prepro, is identical. The only case where PC audio library might sound different than Apple computer's library would be when outputting analog from computer's DAC and who does that anymore in a wireless world?

 

[Pogre]

I'm getting the feeling Sparkus is just looking for something else to throw money at, lol.

 

[Sparkus]

I know, I wasn't very clear with my thought. Honestly I was celebrating a bit as I got the music sounding right over the weekend and really, I'm thinking too much .
My thought was if you did go digital out from the computer to an external DAC...would you get predictable results? I'm sure I could find out what DAC is in my Onkyo but doubt that I know enough to make sense of the tech specs. So it was just a wide open question....I'm learning from scratch...which can be annoying to experienced AV folks, I know .
I'm not considering anything like that...focused on a sub, just a lot of what if's running through my brain.
Hope I was more clear.

 

[lovinthehd]

I know, I wasn't very clear with my thought. Honestly I was celebrating a bit as I got the music sounding right over the weekend and really, I'm thinking too much .
My thought was if you did go digital out from the computer to an external DAC...would you get predictable results? I'm sure I could find out what DAC is in my Onkyo but doubt that I know enough to make sense of the tech specs. So it was just a wide open question....I'm learning from scratch...which can be annoying to experienced AV folks, I know .
I'm not considering anything like that...focused on a sub, just a lot of what if's running through my brain.
Hope I was more clear.

No worries, that worrying thing comes with audio marketing I think. I think your avr's dac is very much up to the job and no I don't think adding a separate dac unit will be "better". Better to focus on that sub IMO.

 

[Sparkus]

Yeah, like I said...it's all exciting right now, even at my age. So I'm reading, thinking...checking things out. All good, focused on the meat...the rest is brain candy. Thanks, man.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd think we're close in age from some of your comments but have been "into" the gear for a while. I just reread some comments and don't see how you're getting a CD at 32/192 (CD being 16/44.1). Also what "big" improvement in windows did you get by increasing the sampling frequency (and/or bit depth)?

 

[Pogre]

Yeah, like I said...it's all exciting right now, even at my age. So I'm reading, thinking...checking things out. All good, focused on the meat...the rest is brain candy. Thanks, man.

I learned not to get too focused on the electronics. DAC's, separate amps, more wattage, amplifiers that add "air", "depth" and "soundstage" and the like are a confusing mess of numbers and subjective, immeasurable differences that I believe add little to no significance in sound quality. You'll find that to be the general consensus here, with a few exceptions.

Things that have by far the biggest impact are your speakers (including subs) and your room. I spent 2 years swapping out speakers and electronics. My speakers were the first big "wow" moment, then upgrading my subwoofers was the next.

I swapped out 3 different brands of receivers (Yamaha, then Denon x3, then Marantz) climbing the upgrade ladder a step each time then ultimately added a powerful amplifier. None of that had any appreciable impact in sound quality that I could detect except for my SR6011, which has a higher tier of Audyssey for room and sub correction. That's in the REQ tho, not in the amplification.

Moving things around, playing with toe in, crossover points, lugging subwoofers all over the room, put the sub in my chair and crawled around on the floor listening for the best spot, moving the speakers in, moving the speakers out, move them closer together, further apart ... it was work, but holy cow. There was my third "wow" moment. When I pulled my towers another 6" away from the back wall and pushed them a little bit further apart it felt like I got another speaker upgrade and didn't cost me a penny. That's a part of what I mean when I say optimize what you have now. That stuff has an appreciable impact. I'll bet there are a few little things you can do right now that could improve your sound quality in a meaningful, hearable way. You might be surprised. I was.

I made some mistakes along the way, but I learned from them. The guys here threw me a life preserver before I got too far and saved me some headaches and money. I'm super happy with what I have now, but if I could do it over I would have taken more time in the beginning to learn what I really wanted. I didn't mean to make you feel like I was annoyed, I'm really not. I have fun helping other people spend their money. I genuinely wanna help you put it where it counts.

After you get that stuff figured out then we can start talking REW and a measuring mic...

 

[Sparkus]

Absolutely not, Pogre, no one here has made me feel that way....jeez, I never say things properly...wife always told me so. No sir, you guys are very helpful...all of you, especially you Pogre. It was a preemptive comment. I could completely understand if I ever annoyed an experienced user... So, your advice has been taken seriously...I am shopping for subs. The RTi's sound better, but I'm somewhat understanding the forward take on them...they do seem a bit in my face...as opposed to just slightly above conversation, mellow music. Still, it's a very basic understanding I have...but I am loving it Pogre.

 

[Sparkus]

First, I don't even have a CD player. Everything is digital...that's a long story...but to make it short...wife never liked music as I did or the same type of music...over the years, the 20 year Technics got relegated to closets and the basement...and most of the time wasn't used. I had a CD player...but not at you guys' level.

She died, so...now I get to listen to music the way I want and what I want. We had a life to live and music couldn't be a big part of it...simple. So, anything I had ended up as digital downloads and android really. I could put it thru a reciever...but it wasn't until the last 5 years I did.
So since Jan, when I started upgrading and this summer when I started really looking into quality, found all of this. So I'm not using a CD...I've ripped them with Media Player and Roxio but lately I started reading...hence, Audacity and EAC.
I don't understand how upping the Sound setting in Windows to 192khz helped the clarity on the RTi's...I really don't. It did...like it cleaned it up. The rips I do now are in 48000 24 bits. That music cleaned up...the old stuff I didn't even rip myself, and upping didn't help those. Audacity helps...but I'm no sound engineer...lot to learn there.
Hope that explains some of it...The only other things I did was to run the init setup on speakers again and take the fronts out of EQ. The sound is not what I want...but it's WAY better than it was.

Sorry bout the life story...but there's a reason I don't have a CD player, LOL

 

[Pogre]

First, I don't even have a CD player. Everything is digital...that's a long story...but to make it short...wife never liked music as I did or the same type of music...over the years, the 20 year Technics got relegated to closets and the basement...and most of the time wasn't used. I had a CD player...but not at you guys' level.

She died, so...now I get to listen to music the way I want and what I want. We had a life to live and music couldn't be a big part of it...simple. So, anything I had ended up as digital downloads and android really. I could put it thru a reciever...but it wasn't until the last 5 years I did.
So since Jan, when I started upgrading and this summer when I started really looking into quality, found all of this. So I'm not using a CD...I've ripped them with Media Player and Roxio but lately I started reading...hence, Audacity and EAC.
I don't understand how upping the Sound setting in Windows to 192khz helped the clarity on the RTi's...I really don't. It did...like it cleaned it up. The rips I do now are in 48000 24 bits. That music cleaned up...the old stuff I didn't even rip myself, and upping didn't help those. Audacity helps...but I'm no sound engineer...lot to learn there.
Hope that explains some of it...The only other things I did was to run the init setup on speakers again and take the fronts out of EQ. The sound is not what I want...but it's WAY better than it was.

Sorry bout the life story...but there's a reason I don't have a CD player, LOL

Well first off, I'm very sorry to read about your wife. From what little I know of you, you seem to be handling it well. You know, getting excited about your music again and diving into this might be just what the ol' doc orders. I think you could use a little cheer in your life right now!

Okay, cd player... I use my Xbox 1s to play cd's and an old retired laptop to do my rips. I listen almost exclusively to digital now after ripping all of my cd's to lossless formats. I still have most of them boxed up somewhere around here... you don't need an expensive or fancy cd player. I haven't had one in years. As long as I can rip them I don't even worry about it. I play the digital files from the ol' laptop and they sound just as good as my cd's.

The DAC stuff, once you hit a certain level most competent receivers will have a good quality DAC. I have everything hooked up to my receiver via HDMI and use it to switch sources. I have 3 HDMI (Xbox 1s, FireTV and laptop) going in and only one out to my tv. I basically turned my smart tv into a simple monitor and I let my receiver do all of the processing. I'm confident that my avr's DAC is more than capable so I don't sweat about external sources as long as my connection is good and they can pass the signal reliably.

That said, if a person has the budget and just plain wants some nicer, next level gear or a nice cd player there's nothing wrong with that either. Build quality, ergonomics and better materials do count, and some of that stuff has beautiful glowy meters, stunning aesthetics and are just plain damned cool. Just understand what you're paying for. I made a couple of superfluous purchases of my own for no good reason other than to have it. I just love audio gear, lol.

As we get to know each other and you learn more you'll start zeroing in on what you want with a lot more confidence. I went through a major depression a little while ago and this hobby got me out of the house to go listen to different gear at Best Buy Magnolia centers and the occasional rare hifi shop. I started having fun again. Hope you stick around, and enjoy the rest of the journey. I can't wait to see what you think about the new sub when you get settled on it.

 

[photographer86]

I still like buying the album, cd, dvd, blu ray disc and have it for when ever I want to play in a player. I was gonna switch to streaming, and servers and such but I found that you will always need more storage, servers can fail and when they do bye bye music unless you have the same size server to back up. Cheaper for me to just have the proper player and hard copy of material for disc. I do stream internet radio though. Stations like jazz that stream at 320kb's from tune in but that is all i use for digital streaming.

 

[lovinthehd]

First, I don't even have a CD player. Everything is digital...that's a long story...but to make it short...wife never liked music as I did or the same type of music...over the years, the 20 year Technics got relegated to closets and the basement...and most of the time wasn't used. I had a CD player...but not at you guys' level.

She died, so...now I get to listen to music the way I want and what I want. We had a life to live and music couldn't be a big part of it...simple. So, anything I had ended up as digital downloads and android really. I could put it thru a reciever...but it wasn't until the last 5 years I did.
So since Jan, when I started upgrading and this summer when I started really looking into quality, found all of this. So I'm not using a CD...I've ripped them with Media Player and Roxio but lately I started reading...hence, Audacity and EAC.
I don't understand how upping the Sound setting in Windows to 192khz helped the clarity on the RTi's...I really don't. It did...like it cleaned it up. The rips I do now are in 48000 24 bits. That music cleaned up...the old stuff I didn't even rip myself, and upping didn't help those. Audacity helps...but I'm no sound engineer...lot to learn there.
Hope that explains some of it...The only other things I did was to run the init setup on speakers again and take the fronts out of EQ. The sound is not what I want...but it's WAY better than it was.

Sorry bout the life story...but there's a reason I don't have a CD player, LOL

Well, you do have a cd player apparently, it's just in your computer. So how did you compare one file to another with the different settings? The only reason I can think of to transfer the file to a larger bit depth/sampling frequency is if you're going to work on the recording itself. Don't know what MP might do to change the sound but it could perhaps alter the level which might get construed as better? Did you do a blind test with Audacity?

 

[Pogre]

Oh, and eBay for cd's! You can find a ton of stuff on the cheap. Plus it can sometimes be worth it to dig through the bins full of cd's at Best Buy. I stocked up on a lot of my older music that way then just rip it as soon as I get it. After that it goes into a box with the rest of them. That's fun too, looking for your favorite music and finding deals. Some of favorite my cd's I only paid a couple bucks for.

 

[Sparkus]

Appreciate it...she was a good woman. It was last Nov...so I'm well into healing...so I tell myself .
I'll stick around, and I'll hit you up. All you guys are really helpful without being any form of snobbish. That's very cool. Very welcoming. As I get more experience...I'll be better able to contribute, for now...I am an old electrician...and maybe I can help that way. Thanks Pogre...I like the messages with you.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... All you guys are really helpful without being any form of snobbish. ....

Perhaps we are more anti snobbish here. Facts matters more to most of us here.