Marantz or Arcam or Marantz/Monolith or Arcam/Monolith

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Lew2864

Enthusiast
I am replacing my Anthem D2V pre/pro and Anthem A5 amp. I have narrowed the options to a Marantz SR8012, an Arcam AVR 850 or either a Marantz AV 8805 or an Arcam AV 860 coupled with a Monolith 9 channel power amp. My system will be a 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 set-up. Primary use will be for TV/movies, but music is also a factor.

I know that listening to each is the only way to tell which is the best for me. But unfortunately, I cannot test drive the Monolith with the Marantz or Arcam pre/pros. Does anyone have any thoughts on these choices?

Thanks,

Lew
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I doubt the "listening" would tell you much except about dsp capabilities. They seem like capable electronics, altho I'd probably go with Marantz 8012 (or even better the Denon 8500) myself or one of their pre-pros. Arcam just seems overpriced.
 
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gianni.parri

gianni.parri

Audiophyte
Having the AV8805, i absolutely love it. It's brilliant for music and movies all the same.

Have not listened to the other, but you truly can't go wrong with the Marantz. I also believe from reading many professional reviews that it'll be better than the SR8012, how much better i can't say, but there's nothing to interfere with the AV8805, as its a pre pro masterpiece.





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ahmed_gharbawi

Audiophyte
If I were you I would go with the Arcam avr850, the thing’s a beast. It has very good amps, even better than many of the separate power amps on the market. (Don’t know about the monolith tho, never heard one before)
Another thing to consider is room correction. That depends largely on your room acoustics, but if your room is not perfect, which is the case with most of us, room correction really does make a difference, and Dirac live is miles ahead of any version of audyssey.
However, Arcam is a bit overprices there’s no arguing with that. But that’s entirely up to you and what you see as the point of diminishing returns. For me, the fact that it only has 7 channels of amplification with that price tag is a bit of a dealbreaker. But for SQ, there’s no beating the Arcam within that price range.
You could also look at Anthem if you haven’t already, they’re fairly priced and have very good room correction, many say on par with dirac live. Maybe you could get the avm60 with the monolith amp, or the mrx720 if you want to use the internal amps for surround and atmos duties.


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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If I were you I would go with the Arcam avr850, the thing’s a beast. It has very good amps, even better than many of the separate power amps on the market.
$6,000 Arcam AVR850: 142.8 watts x 2Ch 8 ohms 1% THD, 248.8 watts x 2Ch 4 ohms 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/arcam-avr850-av-receiver-review-test-bench#dEp3WdK6zyVHfpQW.99

$3,500 Anthem MRX 1120: 167.8W x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 243.2W x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/anthem-mrx-1120-av-receiver-review-test-bench#X2WIQkX0pC9wUver.99

$3,000 Marantz SR8012: 148W x 2Ch 8 ohms 1% THD, 215 watts x 2Ch 4 ohms 1% THD
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver/marantz-sr8012-bench-tests

$1,600 Yamaha RX-A2080: 192W x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 260W x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench

$2,000 Yamaha RX-A3080: 186 watts x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 294 Watts x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a3060-av-receiver-review-test-bench#Ql3f3E9vrbtBc8Pm.99

I’m sure @PENG can show some figures from Denon AVR.

Bottom line, $6K for the Arcam is a total ripoff for an AVR that has less 2CH power output than a $1,600 AVR.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
$6,000 Arcam AVR850: 142.8 watts x 2Ch 8 ohms 1% THD, 248.8 watts x 2Ch 4 ohms 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/arcam-avr850-av-receiver-review-test-bench#dEp3WdK6zyVHfpQW.99

$3,000 Marantz SR8012: 148W x 2Ch 8 ohms 1% THD, 215 watts x 2Ch 4 ohms 1% THD
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver/marantz-sr8012-bench-tests

$1,600 Yamaha RX-A2080: 192W x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 260W x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench

$2,000 Yamaha RX-A3080: 186 watts x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 294 Watts x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a3060-av-receiver-review-test-bench#Ql3f3E9vrbtBc8Pm.99

I’m sure @PENG can show some figures from Denon AVR.

Bottom line, $6K for the Arcam is a total ripoff for an AVR that has less power output for 2CH than a $1,600 AVR.
No kidding! You could take the $4000 saved on the overpriced Arcam and put it into better speakers, where it will actually improve your sq.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
No kidding! You could take the $4000 saved on the overpriced Arcam and put it into better speakers, where it will actually improve your sq.
I was going to ask what speakers he has. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I cannot test drive the Monolith
No need to test drive the Monolith, unless you’re wondering if you can carry a 100LB amp. :D

The amp is made by ATI, who has made amps for Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Cary Audio, and who owns Theta Digital, B&K, DataSat.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If you’re going to spend $3K+ on an AVR, I would try to see if you can find some deals on the Yamaha CX-A5100/5200 Pre-pro + MX-A5000/5200 Amp within the price vicinity.

Or just get the Yamaha RX-A2080 or A2070 and forget the amp.

Or an equivalent Denon/Marantz AVR would work also.
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
$6,000 Arcam AVR850: 142.8 watts x 2Ch 8 ohms 1% THD, 248.8 watts x 2Ch 4 ohms 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/arcam-avr850-av-receiver-review-test-bench#dEp3WdK6zyVHfpQW.99

$3,500 Anthem MRX 1120: 167.8W x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 243.2W x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/anthem-mrx-1120-av-receiver-review-test-bench#X2WIQkX0pC9wUver.99

$3,000 Marantz SR8012: 148W x 2Ch 8 ohms 1% THD, 215 watts x 2Ch 4 ohms 1% THD
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver/marantz-sr8012-bench-tests

$1,600 Yamaha RX-A2080: 192W x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 260W x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench

$2,000 Yamaha RX-A3080: 186 watts x 2Ch 8ohm 1% THD, 294 Watts x 2Ch 4ohm 1% THD
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a3060-av-receiver-review-test-bench#Ql3f3E9vrbtBc8Pm.99

I’m sure @PENG can show some figures from Denon AVR.

Bottom line, $6K for the Arcam is a total ripoff for an AVR that has less 2CH power output than a $1,600 AVR.
The 2080 has more power than the 3080?? Scratching my head...
 
L

Lew2864

Enthusiast
Thank you for the responses and thoughts so far!

My speakers are Paradigm Signature S8 (l+r) and C5 (center), Servo-15 Sub. Adding rears and Atmos. Dealer has recommended B&W or Focal.

I’d forgotten that the Arcam AVR850 has “only” 7 channels of amplification and would therefore need 2 extra channels of power.

I loved my old Anthem system (and will be repurposing it in the barn workshop) but didn’t know if the current Anthem AVR and pre/pro were up to the current Marantz/Denon/Yamaha. The Anthems seem due for a mid/end of cycle refresh.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The 2080 has more power than the 3080?? Scratching my head...
I think 6W difference is negligible, so I would say in 8 ohms, both the 2000 and 3000 series have the same “190W” output or almost 200 Watts.

But in 4 ohms, the 3000 has more output (almost 300 Watts).
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My speakers are Paradigm Signature S8 (l+r) and C5 (center), Servo-15 Sub. Adding rears and Atmos. Dealer has recommended B&W or Focal.
Why not add Paradigm rears and Atmos and keep the whole system the same brand?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I know that listening to each is the only way to tell which is the best for me. But unfortunately, I cannot test drive the Monolith with the Marantz or Arcam pre/pros. Does anyone have any thoughts on these choices?

Thanks,

Lew
In reality it is extremely difficult to tell which is best for you just by listening even under the best practically possible way to compare one against the other. The reason is simple, how can you do a fair comparison at home, or even at a dealer's demo room, if, by "listening", you mean sound quality.

Others can chime in and share their opinions on why it is so difficult (or easy) to compare by listening, but to me, even if you can do a real apples to apples one, the outcome is still going to be unreliable as the difference in such a comparison would be so minute that you might end up flipping a coin. If sound quality is the main factor, I would just go with specs and bench test data. At least your choice would then be based on facts and data, instead of others subjective opinions. Once you pick your choice, you can then set it up in your own room and do your own tweaking to your liking, knowing that your pick is capable or reproducing the movies and music most accurately, relative to the other competing model.

So based on facts and data:

Marantz - If you need 13 channel processing capability, or may need it in the future then the AV8805 is your only choice. If 11 channel is good enough for you, then the AV7705 will perform just as good in terms of real world use. The 8805 has marketing hypes such as more copper shielding, toridal transformer and most notably, a better DAC, but based on past bench test data, there is no evidence to support the prediction that it could do better than the 7705.

Yamaha - I would think the CX-5100 is a better choice at the moment and I would rank it about the same as the Marantz AV7705, based on specs and available bench test data. It does have DACs that are more comparable to those in the much more expensive AV8805 and better than those in the AV7705. The preamp/vol control IC in the Marantz are likely better than those in the Yamaha's but that's just my educated guess based on circumstantial info, but no real evidence.

Arcam AVR850 - It is an AVR based on class G amplifiers. The DAC has decent specs, but really sucks relatively speaking, compared to Marantz and Yamaha's. The difference should not be audible unless you have the so called golden ears, but it really sucks to know such an expensive AVR is using DAC with specs virtually the same as those found in the older mid range AVRs.

Anthem MRX-1120 - Same DACs found in the AV7705, if used as prepro that's fine. If the internal amps are used, be aware that only 5 channels are rated 140 W/8 ohms, the remaining channels are only rated 60 W/8 ohms. AARC, to me is overrated, fueled by internet reviews/hearsay. It is PEQ based, inherently not as good as Dirac live or even Audyssey XT32 (now that the Audyssey Editor app is available). That's just my opinion so ommv..

So between those you listed, my pick would be the CX-5100 (if 11 channel processing is enough), or the AV7705. If you intend to use external amps, I don't see any point considering AVRs. If you do, I would just pick between the AVR-X4500H, the SR7013, or the RX-A3080. The 3080 would be my top choice but I am not 100% (may be 90%:D) comfortable of it's pre out voltage level but no concerns at all if the intended power amp is rated below 300 W. The RX-A2080 would be a great choice too if you are sure 9 channel processing is enough.
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
I think 6W difference is negligible, so I would say in 8 ohms, both the 2000 and 3000 series have the same “190W” output or almost 200 Watts.

But in 4 ohms, the 3000 has more output (almost 300 Watts).
Yes, I realize it's negligible, and more than likely not audible. But I guess it's the principle. If it's the company's damn flagship they're charging $2000 for, it should measure better than the lower models, all the way around. Just my opinion..
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
More than that in another test, but still negligible.
So here's a question. instead of making tiny enhancements with each new model like they do. What if they kept the 3090 the exact same, feature wise. But included a bigger power supply and so on that made the receiver like 50 lbs or so, gave it an honest 165 per channel and added on another 500 bucks to the price, do you think that would be a smart thing to do? Would it sell? I realize some people want 11 channels crammed into one box and Auro 3D, but I couldn't care less about either.
 
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