Help with first time external amp config

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Would depend on use/goals. He also likes Kimber speaker wire, so whatever.

I use Kimber Kable. They look cool.

 

[PENG]

Then why do people like Gene De Salla constantly recommend adding external amplification to AVR's, at least to the LCR?

I can think of one obvious reason, that in general, preamp+processor+power amp > prepro+power amp > AVR. So it depends on the question, the answer could be: just get an AVR, go with a propro and power amp, or keep the AVR, but add an external amp, or..............as HD said, whatever..

Now if you ask Gene a more specific question such as:

Gene, my room is 12' W X 16.5' L X 8' H, and my mlp is 11' from the center speaker, speakers are Klipsch RP series towers for the L/R, with matching center and surrounds, and I don't plan on going beyond 7.1. Reference level is too loud for me and I never have my volume turned higher than -10 when playing blu ray movies.

I am using a RX-A3080 now, would I hear better sound quality if I add a Monolith 200 WX7?

 

[Auditor55]

It depends on your speakers, how loud you listen, and how far you listen.

I think most people don’t listen to “Reference THX Level” and most systems don’t need an external amp.

I'll repeat what PENG has repeatedly said: any amp can power even a 1-ohm speaker if the volume is low enough.

My first subwoofer was a 10" NHT subwoofer with an 80 Watt amp! Can you even find a subwoofer these days with 80 Watt?

And I was using this single 10" 80W subwoofer in an 18'x20'x10' open living room and shook all the walls like an earthquake.

I've used a 60WPC amp to power my RBH SX-1010N subwoofers (each sub has dual 10" Woofer) to as loud a volume as I am comfortable with, which means shaking all the walls and my bones like an earthquake. Yes, I absolutely love larger-than-life-bass. If "Reference THX level" is louder than this, then I don't want THX level because I will go deaf.

Like HD says, it depends on your use/goal/need/desire, etc.

So I am sticking to my belief - most AVRs in most systems don't need external amps. External amps are meant for separates (pre-pro and preamps).

But if you want to add a great amp to your AVR, that's cool too (even if I don't believe in it).

I never believed in adding external amps to AVR's and always wondered why I kept seeing people with powerful receivers adding external amps. However, I see what Gene is talking about, some of the AVR's today are kind of cheaply made with lots channels and no power.

 

[Auditor55]

Would depend on use/goals. He also likes Kimber speaker wire, so whatever.

I like Audioquest, match my walls, looking forward to getting some.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

some of the AVR's today are kind of cheaply made with lots channels and no power.

Which ones? I've seen power measurements for a lot of AVRs in the past few years. They all look pretty good for power measurements, especially from Denon/Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony.

 

[Auditor55]

I can think of one obvious reason, that in general, preamp+processor+power amp > prepro+power amp > AVR. So it depends on the question, the answer could be: just get an AVR, go with a propro and power amp, or keep the AVR, but add an external amp, or..............as HD said, whatever..

Now if you ask Gene a more specific question such as:

Gene, my room is 12' W X 16.5' L X 8' H, and my mlp is 11' from the center speaker, speakers are Klipsch RP series towers for the L/R, with matching center and surrounds, and I don't plan on going beyond 7.1. Reference level is too loud for me and I never have my volume turned higher than -10 when playing blu ray movies.

I am using a RX-A3080 now, would I hear better sound quality if I add a Monolith 200 WX7?

If I wanted to add an external amp for the center channel, would I need to rerun Audyssey or could I just match the level manually?

 

[PENG]

If I wanted to add an external amp for the center channel, would I need to rerun Audyssey or could I just match the level manually?

Coming from you, is this a trick question?

 

[Auditor55]

Coming from you, is this a trick question?

Absolutely not. I ask because you appear very knowledgeable about this subject.

 

[ryanosaur]

I would not expect the external amp to change the room correction, unless there was a significant flaw in the signal change or AVRs amp stage.

Please correct if this is flawed.

 

[lovinthehd]

I would not expect the external amp to change the room correction, unless there was a significant flaw in the signal change or AVRs amp stage.

Please correct if this is flawed.

The level would likely need adjustment, tho, due different gain structure. I would adjust it either manually or just rerun Audyssey myself....

 

[ryanosaur]

The level would likely need adjustment, tho, due different gain structure. I would adjust it either manually or just rerun Audyssey myself....

true that, thank you.

 

[PENG]

If I wanted to add an external amp for the center channel, would I need to rerun Audyssey or could I just match the level manually?

Agreed with HD and Ryan, just match the level manually..

 

[hemiram]

Which ones? I've seen power measurements for a lot of AVRs in the past few years. They all look pretty good for power measurements, especially from Denon/Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony.

My seemingly decently powered Yamaha Trs-7810 was straining and cooking itself trying to run my apartment set up, 4 Polk LSiM 703's front and side surrounds, a 706 center, and two old SVS bookshelves for rear surrounds. My older Yamaha RXV-659 could and did run them without issues, but that was made with a vastly better power supply. I only retired it because I needed HDMI switching and it didn't do video anything well. Even at what I considered low volume, it was too hot. I put my entire old SVS bookshelf system on it and it still couldn't tolerate it very well. I ended up adding an old Onkyo M-506 and a AcInfinity T8 fan set up, and the 7810 did fine. Now I have a Denon AVR-4500X, and it is OK without the amp, but better with it. Plus I love those giant green meters too much to give them up!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My Yamaha Trs-7810 (about equivalent to the A800 series) was cooking itself trying to run (7 speakers) — 4 Polk LSiM 703's front and side surrounds, a 706 center, and two old SVS bookshelves for rear surrounds.

So the chassis got extremely hot to the touch when you placed your hand on the chassis?

 

[hemiram]

it actually started to stink a little, and at that point, I got out one of my old 2 Channel receivers wth Pre outs/main ins, and used the amp to run the L+R fronts until the big Onkyo came. The 7810 wouldn't have lasted very long if I hadn't done something. I was kind of shocked at how little volume level it took to get it into the danger zone. Now, with the Onkyo M506 running the front L=R pair, the 7810 does ok, and with the ACInfinity T8, it stays about 85F and can be touched anywhere and it only feels lukewarm at the same level it cooked at before. So far, my Denon 4500x with the same T8 on it is doing fine (with the M506 on the fronts) and seems to generally sound a little better, so the 7810 is now moved to backup status.

 

[PENG]

My seemingly decently powered Yamaha Trs-7810 was straining and cooking itself trying to run my apartment set up, 4 Polk LSiM 703's front and side surrounds, a 706 center, and two old SVS bookshelves for rear surrounds. My older Yamaha RXV-659 could and did run them without issues, but that was made with a vastly better power supply. I only retired it because I needed HDMI switching and it didn't do video anything well. Even at what I considered low volume, it was too hot. I put my entire old SVS bookshelf system on it and it still couldn't tolerate it very well. I ended up adding an old Onkyo M-506 and a AcInfinity T8 fan set up, and the 7810 did fine. Now I have a Denon AVR-4500X, and it is OK without the amp, but better with it. Plus I love those giant green meters too much to give them up!

The LSiM703's specs say 8 ohm compatible but they are actually closer to 4 ohm, probably 5.5 to 6 ohm nominal based on the impedance vs frequency graph. Phase angle is also not too bad between 80 and 110 Hz. So those speakers would work better with AVRs if XO is set to 110 Hz or at least 100 Hz assuming you have capable subwoofer(s).

The X4500H should have no trouble driving a pair of them, but to take 4 of them plus a pair of SVS bookshelf that are likely also closer to 4-6 ohm nominal, is not a good idea so leaving the the L/R to the M506 is a good idea. A fan on top of the Denon is also good if you want it to last longer.

 

[hemiram]

I tried setting the crossover to 100 and I don't know if I like it better there or at 80, it's like at the eye doctor, "Is this better, or is this one better?" It's kind of like, "They're about the same!". I'm running a single sub right now, and I'm not sure space or my neighbors below me would be tolerating a second Rythmik F12, but bass is not a problem, regardless of what the crossover is. The difference between my old Sony cheapo sub and the new one is amazing. And as far as the Onkyo goes, the 4500 runs too hot, IMHO, without it, and those meters are too pretty anyway to not use it.