"The Hunt"

[MR.MAGOO]

Now let's see if we can enact some meaningful gun control while everyone is somewhat paying attention. I doubt that the Republicans will actually do anything.

Guns are not the problem.

 

[herbu]

Well it looks like they pulled the film. I suppose they'll release it at a later time.

 

[Trell]

Guns are not the problem.

 

[highfigh]

View attachment 30502

We don't have that many shootings. We have too many, but again, look at the mental health column in the link. We have a problem with mentally ill people gaining access to guns because HIPAA doesn't allow obtaining medical records for the purpose of background checking applicants and we also have a problem with people selling/obtaining guns when they aren't legally qualified.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/?gclid=Cj0KCQjws7TqBRDgARIsAAHLHP5ZoqPU-Us_0w6M4lYJdHHqDT6Bj50BuW4tGjiGefD6FWAyrMRmMZ4aAlHAEALw_wcB&fbclid=IwAR0j0uMZuMcbMJIoYIR5xyf64EfW5brNiCyoOmyYrfhJITH8PrsQ6QCzC6A

 

[TheWarrior]

We don't have that many shootings.

I present Exhibit #31846 of The Effects of Russian Propaganda.

That is an unfathomably terrible statement to make, especially after the week we just had.

 

[killdozzer]

Because we here in the US are still suffering the effects of Russian attacks that have resulted in otherwise (possibly) intelligent people willfully throwing out their morality to worship an orange turd.




Just facts.

Did you notice how not a single other person in this thread needed to refer to another by their political leanings?

Hmmmmmm... Yes. And then again... I think your response bears a lot from before. I think if someone you don't know asked the same question, you might've not think it's a dumb question.

But I understand what you're saying.

 

[lovinthehd]

Guns are not the problem.

Not the sole problem but they're too easily obtained. We're very late in doing something but better than never.

 

[markw]

View attachment 30502

Sorry, troll, you might want to read this.

https://www.mrctv.org/blog/more-lies-mass-shootings-america-after-tragedies?fbclid=IwAR04hC6u0WlHIJUw8cQLr588vn7IEk76pkEcj2tAuOV0t6F6wKEYTyIkGu0

Now what country systematically killed millions of Jews and others in the last century?

Guess what's now in vogue there again now that Merkel invited in reinforcements?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/magazine/anti-semitism-germany.html

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I still remember reading it back in Grade 10 literature class. Excellent story.

Ditto. I especially loved how it ended.

(Unlike this thread...)

 

[Alex2507]

look at the mental health column

For a second there, I thought AH had a new subforum.

 

[panteragstk]

Ditto. I especially loved how it ended.

(Unlike this thread...)

Hey now, this thread might have a fantastic ending. You never know.

We could always turn this into another cat meme thread. That was fun.

 

[highfigh]

I present Exhibit #31846 of The Effects of Russian Propaganda.

That is an unfathomably terrible statement to make, especially after the week we just had.

BS!- that drawing is wrong and you know it. The US IS NOT the only country with mass shootings and if you would look it the eff up, you would know that. You may even stop your "I HATE THE US" crusade.

I'm not denying that we have too many murders and mass shootings- I have posted this many times but at some point, you need to accept the fact that people are carrying out these atrocities and other people are facilitating them. Then, there are the laws that Congress passes that almost guarantee these shootings will continue until they finally decide that a policy of no guns will take care of it once & for all, which it won't.

 

[GO-NAD!]

BS!- that drawing is wrong and you know it. The US IS NOT the only country with mass shootings and if you would look it the eff up, you would know that. You may even stop your "I HATE THE US" crusade.

I'm not denying that we have too many murders and mass shootings- I have posted this many times but at some point, you need to accept the fact that people are carrying out these atrocities and other people are facilitating them. Then, there are the laws that Congress passes that almost guarantee these shootings will continue until they finally decide that a policy of no guns will take care of it once & for all, which it won't.

You are absolutely right about that. We hear more about mass shootings in the US because of the population size and cultural/media presence in the world, along with the fetishistic fascination with guns. The US is no outlier when it comes to mass shootings, but it certainly draws attention to the issue of gun violence. Mass shootings in the US are a - and I hate to sound flippant about it - distraction, compared to overall gun violence. Whereas, mass shooting rates in the US do not stand out, overall gun violence certainly does. The firearms-related death rate in the US places her in some pretty unflattering company.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/

Unfortunately, it seems to be only after a major mass shooting that gun laws get debated.

 

[Trell]

You are absolutely right about that. We hear more about mass shootings in the US because of the population size and cultural/media presence in the world, along with the fetishistic fascination with guns. The US is no outlier when it comes to mass shootings, but it certainly draws attention to the issue of gun violence. Mass shootings in the US are a - and I hate to sound flippant about it - distraction, compared to overall gun violence. Whereas, mass shooting rates in the US do not stand out, overall gun violence certainly does. The firearms-related death rate in the US places her in some pretty unflattering company.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/

Unfortunately, it seems to be only after a major mass shooting that gun laws get debated.

Exactly, and with the very easy access and abundance of firearms/handguns violence in USA becomes so much more deadly than other developed countries. Attempted suicides are much more likely to succeed if a gun is used, so lives that could be saved are lost.

 

[highfigh]

You are absolutely right about that. We hear more about mass shootings in the US because of the population size and cultural/media presence in the world, along with the fetishistic fascination with guns. The US is no outlier when it comes to mass shootings, but it certainly draws attention to the issue of gun violence. Mass shootings in the US are a - and I hate to sound flippant about it - distraction, compared to overall gun violence. Whereas, mass shooting rates in the US do not stand out, overall gun violence certainly does. The firearms-related death rate in the US places her in some pretty unflattering company.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/

Unfortunately, it seems to be only after a major mass shooting that gun laws get debated.

The US is a young country and with the government being at the far East Coast and so much land to the West in the 1800s, laws meant nothing. In the South, they were similarly violated for a long time, putting people in a position where they had to defend themselves, but that need came only because so many others preyed upon them. Eventually, more police were hired, a bit more peace came to the cities and towns, but we seem to be in the unique position of needing to look at why people feel they need guns- they don't feel safe; whether that feeling comes from real threats or from mental illness, depends on the person. Then, there's the perception that the government will take everyone's guns and buying frenzies happen, as evidenced by the period when Obama was POTUS- I saw memes on FB that were supposed to be from the firearms industry, congratulating Obama on his year after year status as the nation's top firearm salesman.

Wayne LaPierre is not helping, but it seems that he's losing support in the MRA- he'll be gone soon. I know people who wear big, shiny NRA belt buckles with "The Right To Bear Arms", but if anyone were to ask them to quote the whole Second Amendment, they couldn't. By fanning the flames as he has, he's just making half of the country hate him and gun owners.

The firearm application process, as it stands, can't include info about the person't mental health, other than question 11.f because HIPAA doesn't allow looking into someones' medical history, as I have posted. Who wrote that law? Congress. Who makes noise about gun control when the people are outraged? Congress. Why? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO STAY IN OFFICE.

11.f. Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)

Question 11.f. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

Now, who wouldn't lie about that?

The application process needs work.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

 

[highfigh]

Exactly, and with the very easy access and abundance of firearms/handguns violence in USA becomes so much more deadly than other developed countries. Attempted suicides are much more likely to succeed if a gun is used, so lives that could be saved are lost.

And many suicide attempts with guns fail with some of those people changing their thinking afterward- my cousin's daughter tried and failed; she now councils people who are contemplating suicide. Physically, she didn't come out with just a little hole, either.

You're still not blaming people for their acts. Until people stop using violence as a first reaction when a problem arises, this will never end. While it may have been inevitable, a Milwaukee woman stabbed and then shot a man with the same last name last week- the article doesn't go into any detail about that. I checked the WI circuit court records and it showed that they had lived at the same address, so I think they were married, but the records show several domestic violence incidents and temporary restraining orders. I doubt the gun was purchased legally and she has gone to trial several times for carrying without a permit, going back to 2001.

Read the article lower on the link about the 60 year old woman who was shot in the crossfire of a gun fight, too-

https://fox6now.com/2019/08/09/milwaukee-woman-facing-charges-after-allegedly-stabbing-fatally-shooting-man-near-53rd-and-hampton/

Now, where does the blame go- people, or guns? The guns were probably illegally obtained, so that's at least two marks on the people side- first, they got the guns illegally, then they opened fire without giving a rat's ass about anyone else.

BTW- shootings don't occur in every nook and corner of the country- the legal gun owners occasionally use them stupidly or because of mental illness that starts after they got the weapons- it's doubtful that legal owners never do this. They do, however, leave their guns for someone to steal during a break-in and that's one thing that really pisses me off- IMO, if they don't keep their guns safe (not necessarily IN a safe) and they're taken in a break-in, I think they should be restricted & pay a fine. Owning guns comes with responsibilities and people are neglecting them.

The illegal gun trade is rampant but gun control, as proposed, will do nothing-

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-traffickingprivate-sales-statistics/

 

[Trell]

And many suicide attempts with guns fail with some of those people changing their thinking afterward- my cousin's daughter tried and failed; she now councils people who are contemplating suicide. Physically, she didn't come out with just a little hole, either.

You're still not blaming people for their acts. Until people stop using violence as a first reaction when a problem arises, this will never end. While it may have been inevitable, a Milwaukee woman stabbed and then shot a man with the same last name last week- the article doesn't go into any detail about that. I checked the WI circuit court records and it showed that they had lived at the same address, so I think they were married, but the records show several domestic violence incidents and temporary restraining orders. I doubt the gun was purchased legally and she has gone to trial several times for carrying without a permit, going back to 2001.

Read the article lower on the link about the 60 year old woman who was shot in the crossfire of a gun fight, too-

https://fox6now.com/2019/08/09/milwaukee-woman-facing-charges-after-allegedly-stabbing-fatally-shooting-man-near-53rd-and-hampton/

Now, where does the blame go- people, or guns? The guns were probably illegally obtained, so that's at least two marks on the people side- first, they got the guns illegally, then they opened fire without giving a rat's ass about anyone else.

BTW- shootings don't occur in every nook and corner of the country- the legal gun owners occasionally use them stupidly or because of mental illness that starts after they got the weapons- it's doubtful that legal owners never do this. They do, however, leave their guns for someone to steal during a break-in and that's one thing that really pisses me off- IMO, if they don't keep their guns safe (not necessarily IN a safe) and they're taken in a break-in, I think they should be restricted & pay a fine. Owning guns comes with responsibilities and people are neglecting them.

The illegal gun trade is rampant but gun control, as proposed, will do nothing-

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-traffickingprivate-sales-statistics/

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, and as you point out there can be great physical damage as well if one survives.

I do blame the people for their acts, though there are some kind-of exceptions for medical grounds, age or self-defence. That does not mean they just are let go without any consequences, though.

With such easy access to firearms/handguns we have, as an example, not just a robbery and beating up someone but also murder. Or domestic violence getting out of hand when guns are available.

 

[killdozzer]

In this particular thread, those leaning towards right are wrong.

 

[highfigh]

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, and as you point out there can be great physical damage as well if one survives.

I do blame the people for their acts, though there are some kind-of exceptions for medical grounds, age or self-defence. That does not mean they just are let go without any consequences, though.

With such easy access to firearms/handguns we have, as an example, not just a robbery and beating up someone but also murder. Or domestic violence getting out of hand when guns are available.

Self-defense doesn't require an AR/AK weapon. It's a very effective gun to accomplish it, but it's not needed and in most buildings, it's just as dangerous to people beyond the attacker. People confuse want and need- that needs to change. All defensive gun use is investigated by the Police. Well, if they know about it, anyway.

How can you except someone on medical grounds or age?

Many shootings occur due to simple arguments, but not usually with legally obtained guns. It's not exclusive, though- plenty of legal gun owners kill someone for stupid reasons but if the vetting process was more stringent, some of these would have been avoided.

 

[TheWarrior]

BS!- that drawing is wrong and you know it. The US IS NOT the only country with mass shootings and if you would look it the eff up, you would know that. You may even stop your "I HATE THE US" crusade.

We don't have that many shootings.

You made that statement after a week that saw dozens murdered. By white guys with guns. That have been increasingly identified as Trump supporters.

Now please stop putting words in my mouth and own up to the dreadful ones coming out of yours.