Hate To Do It, Yamaha 3070 Vs Marantz SR7012 Vs Denon 4500 Vs Other

[Discrete Output]

Can buy all 3 of these for the same price of around $1000.

Going to be using preouts for L & R and subs.

Looking to have good 2 channel performance for music. Concerned with this because I am currently using a McIntosh Pre and think these might disappoint.

Not trying to start a war and all opinions will be appreciated.

 

[lovinthehd]

I say pick one for the features you want. They'll all be fine in 2ch performance, as to how you make them sound with or without their inherent dsp....up to you. Why do you think they'll disappoint? Have you had such experience?

 

[Discrete Output]

I say pick one for the features you want. They'll all be fine in 2ch performance, as to how you make them sound with or without their inherent dsp....up to you. Why do you think they'll disappoint? Have you had such experience?

Only experience I have had was using a Yamaha RX-V793 for a preamp and switching to McIntosh. The Yamaha had a very flat sound. The Mc is much more dynamic and rich sounding IMO. This was in 2 channel only.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not my experience with quite a few different amps/pre-amps/avrs to have that significant a sound difference. Never owned McIntosh, maybe they incorporate something deliberately?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not my experience with quite a few different amps/pre-amps/avrs to have that significant a sound difference. Never owned McIntosh, maybe they incorporate something deliberately?

Yes, they incorporate something very rare called Bias.

You charge an arm and a leg along with some flashy lightings and next thing you know all kinds of hearsay start flooding the Internet.

 

[Discrete Output]

Yes, they incorporate something very rare called Bias.

You charge an arm and a leg along with some flashy lightings and next thing you know all kinds of hearsay start flooding the Internet.

Well, I never paid an arm and a leg. Purchased everything but my TV used.

I thought the Yamaha sounded pretty good until I unplugged it, and plugged in the McIntosh, very noticeable improvement.

I also have a couple vintage Pioneer SX-1050's that sound better than the Yamaha.

Believe it or not, products built with better quality components may sound better. Maybe you are biased because you deal Yamaha?

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, I never paid an arm and a leg. Purchased everything but my TV used.

I thought the Yamaha sounded pretty good until I unplugged it, and plugged in the McIntosh, very noticeable improvement.

I also have a couple vintage Pioneer SX-1050's that sound better than the Yamaha.

Believe it or not, products built with better quality components may sound better. Maybe you are biased because you deal Yamaha?

So you just plugged in a different unit and perhaps heard a slightly different level only? A bit louder is often construed as better. I find it very hard to properly compare such units, often it is simply a difference heard especially in an informal comparison. Sometimes it's just assuming that all these units sounding significantly different due various biases. I've had units from a variety of brands/units switched among various speakers and rooms and find the significant differences are the speakers/rooms, not the electronics. Currently in the house I have three different brands of avr (four in use), plus several brands of amps and pre-amps too of various types with a total of over 50 speakers and 10 subs....I just don't consider it something to sweat over and try and find minute differences with. YMMV.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe you are biased because you deal Yamaha?

Dang it. Thanks for reminding me that I can no longer just be freely saying whatever comes to my mind.

As a dealer (I mean audio dealer, not drug dealer ),I have to be more judicious about what I say.

So that means I can no more say anything negative about any brands I am not a dealer for.

McIntosh is pretty and they sound as good as any brand I've heard and owned. I actually pondered buying the McIntosh pre-pro when my Denon AVP-A1HDCI died. But the Best Buy Magnolia store wouldn't give me any kind of discount.

 

[PENG]

I thought the Yamaha sounded pretty good until I unplugged it, and plugged in the McIntosh, very noticeable improvement.

I also have a couple vintage Pioneer SX-1050's that sound better than the Yamaha.

Believe it or not, products built with better quality components may sound better. Maybe you are biased because you deal Yamaha?

Can buy all 3 of these for the same price of around $1000.

Not trying to start a war and all opinions will be appreciated.

I have auditioned various Mc products in high end dealers who sell other brands, always heard differences between their speakers/placements, but not the amps/processors. That's not my opinion, just my own perception.

By now I think it is clear that no opinions will affect your own opinion. Logically speaking, based on your belief, perception or whatever descriptions that fit, you won't be happy with any of the 3. So I can't think of a reason why you would even consider those 3 instead of going with a Mc, other than budget constraint?

 

[Discrete Output]

So you just plugged in a different unit and perhaps heard a slightly different level only? A bit louder is often construed as better. I find it very hard to properly compare such units, often it is simply a difference heard especially in an informal comparison. Sometimes it's just assuming that all these units sounding significantly different due various biases. I've had units from a variety of brands/units switched among various speakers and rooms and find the significant differences are the speakers/rooms, not the electronics. Currently in the house I have three different brands of avr (four in use), plus several brands of amps and pre-amps too of various types with a total of over 50 speakers and 10 subs....I just don't consider it something to sweat over and try and find minute differences with. YMMV.

Thank You, for the constructive explanation.

 

[Discrete Output]

I have auditioned various Mc products in high end dealers who sell other brands, always heard differences between their speakers/placements, but not the amps/processors. That's not my opinion, just my own perception.

By now I think it is clear that no opinions will affect your own opinion. Logically speaking, based on your belief, perception or whatever descriptions that fit, you won't be happy with any of the 3. So I can't think of a reason why you would even consider those 3 instead of going with a Mc, other than budget constraint?

I am not brand loyal whatsoever. Only looking to get the best equipment for the dollar.

Dang it. Thanks for reminding me that I can no longer just be freely saying whatever comes to my mind.

As a dealer (I mean audio dealer, not drug dealer ),I have to be more judicious about what I say.

So that means I can no more say anything negative about any brands I am not a dealer for.

McIntosh is pretty and they sound as good as any brand I've heard and owned. I actually pondered buying the McIntosh pre-pro when my Denon AVP-A1HDCI died. But the Best Buy Magnolia store wouldn't give me any kind of discount.

Wow, don't have a meltdown. I bet you are just a delight at parties.

 

[Ponzio]

Yamaha RX-A3070 owner here who uses it 90% of the time for music, in tandem with two SVS SB-2000 subs and a pair of Salk SongTower's.

Buy it, rest easy at nights knowing you own the most reliable brand out there with all the features and power you'll ever need.

See, it's not that hard

 

[PENG]

I am not brand loyal whatsoever. Only looking to get the best equipment for the dollar.

I know it is not about brand loyal, never doubted you on that at all, but you did say:

"Only experience I have had was using a Yamaha RX-V793 for a preamp and switching to McIntosh. The Yamaha had a very flat sound. The Mc is much more dynamic and rich sounding IMO. This was in 2 channel only. "

That's why I don't think you will be happy with any of the 3 AVRs that you can get for $1000 unless it is a budget thing.

 

[little wing]

I know not everyone will agree with this, but I have no trouble believing a $300 Yamaha receiver doesn't sound as good as something from McIntosh.

 

[Pogre]

In my experience my Yamaha sounded as good as my Denon, which sounded as good as my current Marantz. I used all 3 AVR's to power my speakers then bought a Monolith 7, which is now powering my front 3. Aside from the different req programs they all sounded just as good as the other to me. In fact I'd say my Monolith sounds identical to the Marantz because I'm still using it for a pre. Only reason I got an amp was because... I wanted an amp, lol.

I'd say I have a little more stability at higher volumes now, but no audible difference in sound quality.

 

[Discrete Output]

Yamaha RX-A3070 owner here who uses it 90% of the time for music, in tandem with two SVS SB-2000 subs and a pair of Salk SongTower's.

Buy it, rest easy at nights knowing you own the most reliable brand out there with all the features and power you'll ever need.

See, it's not that hard

May I ask if you used any room correction?

 

[Pogre]

May I ask if you used any room correction?

Its been so long since I used YPAO, so I'm a li'l fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure MultEQ XT32 (Denon/Marantz) gave me the best results thus far with room eq.

 

[Zega]

Well, I never paid an arm and a leg. Purchased everything but my TV used.

I thought the Yamaha sounded pretty good until I unplugged it, and plugged in the McIntosh, very noticeable improvement.

I also have a couple vintage Pioneer SX-1050's that sound better than the Yamaha.

Believe it or not, products built with better quality components may sound better. Maybe you are biased because you deal Yamaha?

What kind of speakers are you using with your amps/receivers?
Matching the correct speakers with whatever amp that you may be using, is key!
No matter how much any of it costs.
Match the wrong speaker to any amp and it will sound like crap!
I have the Yamaha 3080, Denon 4810ci, Denon 4802, Yamaha RX-Z9 and several more.
And one Yamaha that is 23 years old.
They all sound spectacular, but only when they are paired with the right speakers!

Rare few receivers sound exactly alike, maybe none, unless they have the same exact guts!
Just because the yamaha that you have sucks, means nothing in relation to another model of Yamaha. Especially the newer ones! I have favorites from many brands. And you may just have not heard that one that you have with the right speakers.

 

[little wing]

I use the Yamaha 3060 and most of the time, for music and movies I use the "Through" mode, which is no Eq. I did run YPAO and listened extensively. I ruled out the "Flat" mode because it sounds too bright for me. The "Front" mode was meh. There are SOME recordings that seem to benefit from the "Natural" setting however. But most of the time I seem to gravitate to using "Through" I have not really tried to manually Eq the subwoofer, so I don't know if any improvement is to be had there.

 

[Old Onkyo]

What kind of speakers are you using with your amps/receivers?
Matching the correct speakers with whatever amp that you may be using, is key!
No matter how much any of it costs.
Match the wrong speaker to any amp and it will sound like crap!
I have the Yamaha 3080, Denon 4810ci, Denon 4802, Yamaha RX-Z9 and several more.
And one Yamaha that is 23 years old.
They all sound spectacular, but only when they are paired with the right speakers!

Rare few receivers sound exactly alike, maybe none, unless they have the same exact guts!
Just because the yamaha that you have sucks, means nothing in relation to another model of Yamaha. Especially the newer ones! I have favorites from many brands. And you may just have not heard that one that you have with the right speakers.

How do you determine what’s a good match?