Yamaha CX-A5200 and MX-A5200

[PENG]

As for the power engines, the AMPs specs say " Input sensitivity for rated output Unbalanced: 1.9 Vrms, Balanced: 0.95 Vrms" so this may be a no-op for my setup with balanced. I agree with Gene, I KNOW that flaw is there.

Was it a typo, I would think usually it is the opposite, that is: for input sensitivity, unbalanced: 0.95 V, balanced: 1.9V, because typically (not always) XLR balanced output = 2X unbalanced output.

 

[gattaca]

Was it a typo, I would think usually it is the opposite, that is: for input sensitivity, unbalanced: 0.95 V, balanced: 1.9V, because typically (not always) XLR balanced output = 2X unbalanced output.

Yes and No. I pulled the wrong manual. Two 7 channel amps with slightly different specs but both under 1V RMS to rated outputs. These are quite old power amps I've owned for a long time.
A) Input sensitivity for rated output Unbalanced: 1.34 Vrms; Balanced: 0.67 Vrms
B) Input Sensitivity Unbalanced (for rated output): 1.9Vrms; Balanced (for rated output): 0.95Vrms;

 

[gattaca]

I'm not as picky as Gene, so I don't even notice any HDMI-speed-switching issue at all after using the CX-A5100 for 1+ years now. Before the CX-A5100, I was using the Denon AVP-A1HDCI for 8+ years.

As for the AI, that's marketing IMO. I wouldn't even use it. Just boost that Center speaker level by 2-4dB. Also use the AV Controller remote App to quickly adjust the Center Dialogue level while you're watching.

Thanks! I'll mark slow HDMI switching off my negatives. As for the "AI", I can do that, training the wife/family to do that...well that's whole other challenge which is why it sounded like a win/win!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks! I'll mark slow HDMI switching off my negatives. As for the "AI", I can do that, training the wife/family to do that...well that's whole other challenge which is why it sounded like a win/win!

Some people actually like that AI stuff. And I think it might be good for the wife and non-audiophile people.

But I just can't.....

As for the HDMI, I can only compare the CX-A5100's HDMI to the Denon AVP-A1HDCI's HDMI. I don't think it's any slower than the Denon. On the positive side, the CX-A5100's HDMI is 100% more compatible with my equipment than the Denon's. For example, I had to use a HDMI-to-Component converter for my Direct TV receiver when using the Denon AVP-A1. But now with the CX-A5100, I can just use the HDMI with my DTV receiver.

I use 3 HTPCs. And the Denon had some issues with the HDMI handshake with my HTPC and Projector. The CX-A5100 has no issues. And I switch between the 3 HTPCs (don't ask why I have 3 HTPCs ) on the CX-A5100 just fine.

Also very positive side - the Remote Control App (Yamaha AV Controller) is 100% better and more compatible/more consistent than the Denon Remote app (iOS, Android).

The Yamaha MusicCast music streaming App also works 100% better than the Denon AVP-A1's AirPlay using the same Ethernet cable and network.

 

[PENG]

Yes and No. I pulled the wrong manual. Two 7 channel amps with slightly different specs but both under 1V RMS to rated outputs. These are quite old power amps I've owned for a long time.
A) Input sensitivity for rated output Unbalanced: 1.34 Vrms; Balanced: 0.67 Vrms
B) Input Sensitivity Unbalanced (for rated output): 1.9Vrms; Balanced (for rated output): 0.95Vrms;

This is very interesting. Typically speaking, if the gain of the power amp is 29 dB for unbalanced input, it would be 23 dB for balanced input so the input sensitivity is halved that of balanced input, or it needs double the input voltage for it to reach its rated output. Also, balanced output of a preamp is typically double that of unbalanced outputs so the overall results when the preamp/amp works as a pair would be the same either way.

As an numerical example, take a look of the CX-A5200 being discussed here:

Rated output.................1 V unbalanced
Rated output.................2 V balanced

MX-A5200 power amplifier

Input sensitivity for 100 W output into 8 ohm:

Unbalanced.................1 V
Balanced.....................2 V

The Yamaha pair is more what I would call typical, I do have an amp that has the same input sensitivity specification for either connection, but I have never seen any amp specs that has the input sensitivity 2X higher for balanced, until now.

I am very curious to know what those two older amps are.

 

[gene]

Unless I have forgotten some details already, the distortions Gene found is not unique to using RCA or XLR.

The problem is with XLR and ONLY the main L/R channels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The problem is with XLR and ONLY the main L/R channels.

And that's with all the CX-A5200 units sold (as far as we know), not just the one you had to review?

 

[gattaca]

I am very curious to know what those two older amps are.

Sure.. Just know I've been collecting these on/off since 1983 and these are what's in my rack today. Sunfire (Carver) driving Maggies. I'll sleep on ALL the GREAT advice and decide on the CA-A5100 or A5200. Based on Gene's comments, the issue should not really impact me at these low levels - it's more just knowing. So I'm leaning toward the CX-A5200... (WAF and all).

Being new, the forum will not let me post the links until I have 1 more entry.. so links will follow.

 

[gattaca]

^^^
C7 / Page 18 -> http://corebrands-resources.s3.amazonaws.com/products/Sunfire/Discontinued/Cinema-Seven-Signature-Manual.pdf
TGA7401 / Page 18 -> http://resources.corebrands.com/products/TGA7401/pdf_TGA7401_manual.pdf

Thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm leaning toward the CX-A5200... (WAF and all).

That's what my friend decided on also (he's divorced so no WAF), even though the CX-A5100 was less expensive.

I think the SNR, Crosstalk, and Frequency Response of the CX-A5200 should still be SOTA like the A5100; It's just the FL/FR XLR distortion is not SOTA.

 

[Phase 2]

Makes me wonder if Yamaha's A3080 front L/R XLR has the same issue.

 

[gattaca]

Makes me wonder if Yamaha's A3080 front L/R XLR has the same issue.

If I were a gambling man.. I'd bet yeah... at the pre-amp stages.. They gotta be using the same boards?

 

[Phase 2]

If I were a gambling man.. I'd bet yeah... at the pre-amp stages.. They gotta be using the same boards?

Maybe PENG will chime in.

 

[PENG]

Sure.. Just know I've been collecting these on/off since 1983 and these are what's in my rack today. Sunfire (Carver) driving Maggies. I'll sleep on ALL the GREAT advice and decide on the CA-A5100 or A5200. Based on Gene's comments, the issue should not really impact me at these low levels - it's more just knowing. So I'm leaning toward the CX-A5200... (WAF and all).

Being new, the forum will not let me post the links until I have 1 more entry.. so links will follow.

Thank you, that explains everything, don't even need links, because with Carver amps, anything is possible.

 

[PENG]

Maybe PENG will chime in.

I would have to see the schematics, until then, I have no idea which boards/parts the 3080 and CX-A5X00 have in common, other than the DAC chip.

 

[gene]

Makes me wonder if Yamaha's A3080 front L/R XLR has the same issue.

I would say with 90% confidence it probably does.

 

[gene]

And that's with all the CX-A5200 units sold (as far as we know), not just the one you had to review?

Yes this is a hardware problem affecting the model as I stated earlier. Yamaha is working on a fix, not sure when it will be out though.

 

[gene]

I spoke to Yamaha today for a good length of time. Looks like they won't be able to improve the distortion problem I found on the 5200 XLR front preouts. This will have to wait for the next model. Interestingly, this issue does NOT impact the 3080 as it's unique only to 5200 pre/pro. Luckily the distortion is still under 0.015% at 4Vrms output so it shouldn't be audible.

I will proceed with the review to confirm.

As for the increased Bridged FFT distortion I found on the MX-A5200, they are still looking into it.

 

[gattaca]

^^^^^ TY for the update!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Luckily the distortion is still under 0.015% at 4Vrms output

Gene, what is the distortion at 2Vrms output?