The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[Anteranz]

forgive my english use translator !!! would someone know how to tell me if the sound of a sr7013 is noticeable by RCA preout to a previous av7705 by RCA too? according to manual there is little on paper that differ ..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

forgive my english use translator !!! would someone know how to tell me if the sound of a sr7013 is noticeable by RCA preout to a previous av7705 by RCA too? according to manual there is little on paper that differ ..

If the settings are all the same and speakers are the same, I think the AV7705 and SR7013 will sound exactly the same.

 

[PENG]

forgive my english use translator !!! would someone know how to tell me if the sound of a sr7013 is noticeable by RCA preout to a previous av7705 by RCA too? according to manual there is little on paper that differ ..

The AV7705 and SR7013's pre-amps and processors are virtually the same, but there are very minor difference in the power supply scheme that may contribute to very slightly lower noise for the AV7705 even if we are comparing them using RCAs. Such difference may (or may not) result in a few dB difference in SNR but it won't result in audible difference because the SR7013 (based on bench test result of the older SR7011) should have excellent SNR already.

On the other hand, since you claimed that you could hear much better sound just by adding an Emotiva power amp, so I bet you would find the AV7705 sounding better than the SR7013 too, if you can see and therefore know which one is playing. Otherwise I bet you wouldn't hear a difference.

 

[VonMagnum]

I thought I answered that in Spanish (at least the translation back looked good to me), but I said the same. No difference for similar amounts of power that I can hear.

 

[Anteranz]

thanks peng and everyone for the help, the truth is that the sound has changed a lot since I left the sr7013 as a pre / amp so that's why my doubt since I had 20 days to return Mr and pay the difference of av7705 ... but I think like you , the day an external amplifier is broken I can use some internal output of the sr7013 !!! I spoke with an official SAT marantz and they told me that both have the same dac, same calibration and same THd the only thing that differs is as peng says dedicated toroidal for those outputs that can give a little more final s / N ... does anyone know if the internal amplifiers are not used if the activated echo mode influences the final sound? greetings to all from Spain

 

[PENG]

thanks peng and everyone for the help, the truth is that the sound has changed a lot since I left the sr7013 as a pre / amp so that's why my doubt since I had 20 days to return Mr and pay the difference of av7705 ... but I think like you , the day an external amplifier is broken I can use some internal output of the sr7013 !!! I spoke with an official SAT marantz and they told me that both have the same dac, same calibration and same THd the only thing that differs is as peng says dedicated toroidal for those outputs that can give a little more final s / N ... does anyone know if the internal amplifiers are not used if the activated echo mode influences the final sound? greetings to all from Spain

Eco mode does not affect the pre out. I know that for sure because I measured my Denon, that has the same preamp as the Marantz 7012 without the HDAM. Also, Marantz has confirmed the same.

 

[PENG]

Found the Marantz support response on ECO mode:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2089586-denon-s-eco-mode-what-does-do-exactly.html

See post#6:

Response By Email (NJ Customer Service & Support) (10/11/2016 12:08 PM)
Hi Michael,
When ECO Mode is used, voltage for the amp stage decreases about 1/3 and amplifier stage energy loss decreases about 1/6 compared to ECO Mode being OFF.
It is recommend when using external amplification to leave ECO Mode set to ON. This will reduce power consumption to less than 70W.
When using ECO Mode ON at lower volume levels (under 45 Absolute) power consumption is about 1/2 as compared to leaving ECO Mode OFF. This is useful if using the AVR at night and you do not want to disturb others.
When using ECO Mode Auto, the circuit will control the power supply voltage by a relay. If the volume level is more than 45 Absolute the circuit will cut off. If the volume is less than 45 Absolute the circuit will switch on automatically. If listening at the threshold level (45) you will hear the relay clicking on and off frequently. Voltage for the amp stage does not change here, so power consumption would be the same as normal.

Thank You,
D+M Custom Install

Google translated:


Cuando se utiliza el modo ECO, el voltaje para la etapa del amplificador disminuye aproximadamente 1/3 y la pérdida de energía de la etapa del amplificador disminuye aproximadamente 1/6 en comparación con el modo ECO apagado.

Se recomienda cuando se utiliza la amplificación externa para dejar el Modo ECO en ON. Esto reducirá el consumo de energía a menos de 70W.

Cuando se usa el Modo ECO ENCENDIDO a niveles de volumen más bajos (menos de 45 Absolutos) el consumo de energía es aproximadamente 1/2 en comparación con dejar el Modo ECO APAGADO. Esto es útil si usa el AVR por la noche y no desea molestar a los demás.

Cuando se utiliza el modo ECO automático, el circuito controlará el voltaje de la fuente de alimentación mediante un relé. Si el nivel de volumen es superior a 45 Absoluto, el circuito se cortará. Si el volumen es inferior a 45 Absoluto, el circuito se encenderá automáticamente. Si escucha al nivel de umbral (45),escuchará el relé haciendo clic con frecuencia. El voltaje para la etapa del amplificador no cambia aquí, por lo que el consumo de energía sería el mismo que el normal.



Gracias,

Instalación personalizada de D + M

 

[RichB]

^ Domo Arigato.

- Rich

 

[liquid360]

I have always had integrated receivers. I began to buy equipment a couple weeks ago and just completed the install a couple days ago of a completely new separate setup/theater. It’s obviously not for everyone, but damn, I LOVE it.

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[Phase 2]

I have always had integrated receivers. I began to buy equipment a couple weeks ago and just completed the install a couple days ago of a completely new separate setup/theater. It’s obviously not for everyone, but damn, I LOVE it.

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What you mean (it's not for everyone). Just cause some of us can't afford a high-end setup like yours doesn't mean we can't enjoy looking at and drooling over yours!! now back to my daily staring at your setup!!. Very sweet brother you'll enjoy for years to come.

 

[Daniel Steixner]

2Ch: Integrated Amp or Preamp/Amp is better than AVR?

MCh: AVR is equal to Pre-pro + Amp?

Do you think that for 2Ch only, an integrated amp or preamp + amp will sound better than a $1,000 AVR used in 2Ch mode?

I think a preamp + amp for 2CH sounds better than an AVR in 2CH mode AND better than an AVR with outboard stereo amp. Based on my own experience of comparing the Marantz AVR SR-7005 directly driving front L/R speakers vs. SR-7005 driving Parasound A23 vs. Oppo HA-1 (used as preamp and DAC) driving at first the A23 and then a Classe CA-150. SQ increased noticeably in the order in which I wrote this, with the biggest increase when the AVR was removed all together and the HA-1 (which is fully balanced with a nice ESS Sabre DAC) took over.

 

[Auditor55]

I think a preamp + amp for 2CH sounds better than an AVR in 2CH mode AND better than an AVR with outboard stereo amp. Based on my own experience of comparing the Marantz AVR SR-7005 directly driving front L/R speakers vs. SR-7005 driving Parasound A23 vs. Oppo HA-1 (used as preamp and DAC) driving at first the A23 and then a Classe CA-150. SQ increased noticeably in the order in which I wrote this, with the biggest increase when the AVR was removed all together and the HA-1 (which is fully balanced with a nice ESS Sabre DAC) took over.

Was your comparison Double Blind Level Matched or at the very least blind? If not, your comparisons are useless because we can't determine how biased might be one way or the other. Sighted listening or comparison test have proven to unreliable.

 

[Auditor55]

What you mean (it's not for everyone). Just cause some of us can't afford a high-end setup like yours doesn't mean we can't enjoy looking at and drooling over yours!! now back to my daily staring at your setup!!. Very sweet brother you'll enjoy for years to come.

Not everyone is willing to invest that much in audio equipment like that because you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns in a given situation.

 

[Verdinut]

Was your comparison Double Blind Level Matched or at the very least blind? If not, your comparisons are useless because we can't determine how biased might be one way or the other. Sighted listening or comparison test have proven to unreliable.

I agree! Unless the SR7005 AVR used as a pre-pro or its power amps are driven outside their normal operating conditions, there shouldn't be any sonic improvement. A more noticeable improvement in SQ would happen with better speakers.

 

[liquid360]

What you mean (it's not for everyone). Just cause some of us can't afford a high-end setup like yours doesn't mean we can't enjoy looking at and drooling over yours!! now back to my daily staring at your setup!!. Very sweet brother you'll enjoy for years to come.

LOL I sincerely hope it doesn’t come across like boasting. Nobody in my life knows about nor cares about the things I love. Here is a place were others share the interest and can appreciate the trouble that goes into a nice setup. Everyone can appreciate the result, but not the hardware or the process which to us is more than half the fun.

Much Thanks!

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[liquid360]

Not everyone is willing to invest that much in audio equipment like that because you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns in a given situation.

It’s more about the appreciation of beautiful hardware. As you point out, there’s an absolute point of diminishing returns when it comes to sound quality. Anyone claiming to buy high end audio strictly for the sound isn’t being honest with themselves. Equally so, to discount build quality so flippantly is also a tad disingenuous. Buy what you love. Nothing else matters.


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[PENG]

I think a preamp + amp for 2CH sounds better than an AVR in 2CH mode AND better than an AVR with outboard stereo amp. Based on my own experience of comparing the Marantz AVR SR-7005 directly driving front L/R speakers vs. SR-7005 driving Parasound A23 vs. Oppo HA-1 (used as preamp and DAC) driving at first the A23 and then a Classe CA-150. SQ increased noticeably in the order in which I wrote this, with the biggest increase when the AVR was removed all together and the HA-1 (which is fully balanced with a nice ESS Sabre DAC) took over.

With due respect, that's your subjective opinion, and others may have their own different experience/opinions. It is a good thing to share opinions though. I own quite a few separate gear, but I own them not because they sound better to me (that may the case when I first started in this hobby, way back..), and to me it is the quality of the media/source and speakers that make most, if not all the difference.

 

[Trell]

With due respect, that's your subjective opinion, and others may have their own different experience/opinions. It is a good thing to share opinions though. I own quite a few separate gear, but I own them not because they sound better to me (that may the case when I first started in this hobby, way back..), and to me it is the quality of the media/source and speakers that make most, if not all the difference.

And the room, of course.

 

[Phase 2]

LOL I sincerely hope it doesn’t come across like boasting. Nobody in my life knows about nor cares about the things I love. Here is a place were others share the interest and can appreciate the trouble that goes into a nice setup. Everyone can appreciate the result, but not the hardware or the process which to us is more than half the fun.

Much Thanks!

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Can't say about others, but I enjoy looking at your setup! This hobby has many ways to enjoy it. Some have modest setups, some like You, Gene, ADTG, TLS Guy..have really high end setups, which I speaking for myself enjoy looking at. It's nice to see when members on AH post up photos of their gear.

 

[Phase 2]

Not everyone is willing to invest that much in audio equipment like that because you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns in a given situation.

True, if I could I would, but since I'm Small change Leroy, I'll enjoy my modest set up. One day maybe I'll hit the lottery then I'll be big money grip!!