Too much stereo imaging?

[Ricardojoa]

So the other day I brought back the ascends acoustic sierra2 out from storage. I was quite suprised how good they sounded specially the stereo imaging, which outperformed the salk songtower, what i had always been listening.
A few days later, i started to get anoyed by the stereo separation. It seems music is all over the place now.

Has anyone ever felt that? Too much imaging not a good thing?

 

[TheWarrior]

So the other day I brought back the ascends acoustic sierra2 out from storage. I was quite suprised how good they sounded specially the stereo imaging, which outperformed the salk songtower, what i had always been listening.
A few days later, i started to get anoyed by the stereo separation. It seems music is all over the place now.

Has anyone ever felt that? Too much imaging not a good thing?

The Precedence Effect describes how two ears, can take information from two or more speakers, and have the brain process that as ONE image.

Typically it is in the placement that a breakdown of the precedence effect can occur. Distance between the two speaker, their distance to the listener(s) as well as their distance to the boundary behind them can affect this, including toe in.

I am assuming this is the situation you are describing, and so I am suggesting that you evaluate how you set them up - hopefully that will get you back to enjoying them!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah, definitely experiment with placement. Distance from side and back walls and especially toe in.

 

[Irvrobinson]

So the other day I brought back the ascends acoustic sierra2 out from storage. I was quite suprised how good they sounded specially the stereo imaging, which outperformed the salk songtower, what i had always been listening.
A few days later, i started to get anoyed by the stereo separation. It seems music is all over the place now.

Has anyone ever felt that? Too much imaging not a good thing?

Is the effect the same regardless of program material? What do you mean by "It seems music is all over the place now." ?

I recommend checking that the speakers are hooked up properly. Are you using subwoofers with a low-pass filter? Speakers wired out of phase can sometimes have odd spatial effects, and if you use subs you might not hear the reduced bass that often accompanies out of phase connections.

 

[Ricardojoa]

The speakers are out 2.5 feet from the front wall and 6feet apart. Center image is locked in center and have good sepation of instruments. And the speakers disappears prett well. In theory, this should be what most people are loking for. I just find them a bit too exaggerated. Is like consistently hear different instruments from left and right. It gets anoying. Im confused too.

 

[Pogre]

The speakers are out 2.5 feet from the front wall and 6feet apart. Center image is locked in center and have good sepation of instruments. And the speakers disappears prett well. In theory, this should be what most people are loking for. I just find them a bit too exaggerated. Is like consistently hear different instruments from left and right. It gets anoying. Im confused too.

Like was suggested, toe in has a lot to do with imaging. Try experimenting with that until you get them where you like.

 

[shadyJ]

Its possible that one of the drivers are wired out of phase rather an entire speaker. That might sound a bit more spaced out than if both speakers are assembled correctly.

If the speakers and drivers are wired correctly, try bringing the speakers closer together. That should squeeze the soundstage inward and put more centering on the imaging.

Also, to be sure, you are using the same recordings as a basis for comparison, correct? Some recordings use a lot more stereo panning than others. Furthermore, I would expect the Ascend speakers and Salk speakers to share a lot of attributes. They go for the same flat response and both are wide dispersion speakers. They should sound a lot more alike than not. If you want something that has more precise and contained imaging, I would recommend looking at narrower dispersion speakers. Look at the JBL LSR 700 series, specifically the 708 speakers.

 

[Ricardojoa]

Is the effect the same regardless of program material? What do you mean by "It seems music is all over the place now." ?

I recommend checking that the speakers are hooked up properly. Are you using subwoofers with a low-pass filter? Speakers wired out of phase can sometimes have odd spatial effects, and if you use subs you might not hear the reduced bass that often accompanies out of phase connections.

What mean is, it seems instruments seperation are too far apart. Music seem disconnected. I know is really odd but the speakers are only 6 feet apart.
Imaging having the center image lock in while the left and right speakers are up and down in volume.
My wife ask me if the surround was on, which of course it was off

 

[Ricardojoa]

Like was suggested, toe in has a lot to do with imaging. Try experimenting with that until you get them where you like.

Im trying heavy toe in as i type and it seems to contain things better which i also never thought of about toe in these speakers specially crossing their im front of the sweet spot.

 

[Ricardojoa]

Its possible that one of the drivers are wired out of phase rather an entire speaker. That might sound a bit more spaced out than if both speakers are assembled correctly.

If the speakers and drivers are wired correctly, try bringing the speakers closer together. That should squeeze the soundstage inward and put more centering on the imaging.

Also, to be sure, you are using the same recordings as a basis for comparison, correct? Some recordings use a lot more stereo panning than others. Furthermore, I would expect the Ascend speakers and Salk speakers to share a lot of attributes. They go for the same flat response and both are wide dispersion speakers. They should sound a lot more alike than not. If you want something that has more precise and contained imaging, I would recommend looking at narrower dispersion speakers. Look at the JBL LSR 700 series, specifically the 708 speakers.

Im trying heavy toe in crossing the sweet spot and it seems to contain the imaging as you say. The subtle cues are less pronounced for sure.
I have never thought of heavy toe in on these speakers.
As far as precise imaging , i think the sierra2 has that. To me, instruments can apear to be too. far apart from each thats why i felt music was all over the place.
Good thing that everything is connected properly.

 

[TLS Guy]

The speakers are out 2.5 feet from the front wall and 6feet apart. Center image is locked in center and have good sepation of instruments. And the speakers disappears prett well. In theory, this should be what most people are loking for. I just find them a bit too exaggerated. Is like consistently hear different instruments from left and right. It gets anoying. Im confused too.

6 ft apart is far too close together. As the late Saul Linkwitz so often pointed out, speakers too close together is the commonest error in set up. Speakers need to be at least 8 ft apart and preferably more. For most rooms 10 to 12 ft. is optimal and up to 14 ft for larger rooms.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Part of it might be your ears having adjusted to the Salk's tone. And now you're hearing the Ascends again after some time away.

My previous speakers were Revel Performa F30's. Stunning both visually and aurally. If they had possessed more impact down low I would have kept them (and saved about 3 grand in the process). The night I got my T&A's, I had planned to compare the two sets. But just one song into the newer speakers and I moved the Revel's to the side and never listened again.

However-- kind of like you described, the T&A's had a LOT of presence in my room. Hard to describe with words... it was a fantastic sound, but overbearing at the same time. For me, I have them toed out a little instead of toed in, but my room is small and I can't sit far away (one day I'll have a better house). But my ears have also adjusted to them over time and they are no longer imposing. So maybe a few days with them in one spot will get you "used" to them again.

 

[Ricardojoa]

6 ft apart is far too close together. As the late Saul Linkwitz so often pointed out, speakers too close together is the commonest error in set up. Speakers need to be at least 8 ft apart and preferably more. For most rooms 10 to 12 ft. is optimal and up to 14 ft for larger rooms.

I have tried spreading them away but the center image falls out. For now , heavy toe in seems to “fix”.
I just find it odd and confused with what i was experiencing, kinda of too much precise imaging.

 

[Ricardojoa]

The Precedence Effect describes how two ears, can take information from two or more speakers, and have the brain process that as ONE image.

Typically it is in the placement that a breakdown of the precedence effect can occur. Distance between the two speaker, their distance to the listener(s) as well as their distance to the boundary behind them can affect this, including toe in.

I am assuming this is the situation you are describing, and so I am suggesting that you evaluate how you set them up - hopefully that will get you back to enjoying them!

I trying heavy toe in and seems to “fix” it haha
Never thought about heavy toe in on these.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Its possible that one of the drivers are wired out of phase rather an entire speaker. That might sound a bit more spaced out than if both speakers are assembled correctly.

Would reversing the speaker cable connections at the speaker help? That is, plug the left wire into the right terminal...on one speaker only that is.

 

[Trell]

6 ft apart is far too close together. As the late Saul Linkwitz so often pointed out, speakers too close together is the commonest error in set up. Speakers need to be at least 8 ft apart and preferably more. For most rooms 10 to 12 ft. is optimal and up to 14 ft for larger rooms.

This is good info, and on his home page he uses the tweeter as origin of measurements for speaker distances. I wish that this more often specified as measuring the distance from tweeter instead of shortest distance easily adds 1 feet or more between speakers, ditto for distance to walls.

 

[ryanosaur]

Interestingly, with the speakers I have from Philharmonic, Dennis recommends usually no toe in and 15° off axis listening. The Ascends are very similar speakers, as mentioned previously, with a wide horizontal dispersion. Have you tried going perpendicular and moving away to a taller isosceles triangle rather than equilateral?

 

[shadyJ]

Would reversing the speaker cable connections at the speaker help? That is, plug the left wire into the right terminal...on one speaker only that is.

If only one of the drivers in one speaker were wired out of phase, wiring one or the other speaker in opposite phase would not help. It would just make the system sound off, but in a different way. The only solution is to correctly connect the particular driver.

 

[Beave]

6 ft apart is far too close together. As the late Saul Linkwitz so often pointed out, speakers too close together is the commonest error in set up. Speakers need to be at least 8 ft apart and preferably more. For most rooms 10 to 12 ft. is optimal and up to 14 ft for larger rooms.

Saul? Is that a nickname?

A Google search of "Saul Linkwitz" returned nothing but links to TLS Guy posts in Audioholics threads.

https://www.google.com/search?q="Saul+Linkwitz"+site:forums.audioholics.com&client=firefox-b-1-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwju1aPNwNvjAhUTsZ4KHbS2CS8QrQIoAjAAegQIABAL&biw=1366&bih=674

Saul Marantz. Siegfried Linkwitz. Saul Marantz. Siegfried Linkwitz.

 

[ichigo]

real tweeter does have rising response maybe the brightness bothers you. You could always try the EX upgrade to the Sierra 2, it adds alot of warmth to the speaker.