From Batwoman to Twilight Zone — Is Hollywood "Wokeness" Ruining Movies and TV shows?

[Kvn_Walker]

I'm not a fan of "virtue signaling" and #Woke culture but this article was unnecessary and seems overly sensitive.

Complaints that white men are portrayed negatively causes articles like this yet since the history of film and TV minorities were portrayed as stereotypes. Everyone should just relax and stop being offended.

Audioholics is great site for audio and home theater content. Leave the culture war outrage to other places.

This thread really should be moved to the Steam Vent.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm not terribly concerned about the recent trend in role reversals between straight white men vs women, POC, LGBTQ++++, etc, because we can vote with our wallets. If a production is genuinely "bad" - regardless of how characters are portrayed - it's going to reflect in the revenues it generates. Or, am I looking at it too simplistically?

On the topic though, I recently finished watching the entire "Mad Men" series and I wondered if the portrayal of social conditions was genuinely reflective of that place and time. I mean, I know that women, POC and gay people were treated worse then than now, but I'm not sure if the treatment of these people in the series was a bit too on the nose, just to make the point that it was worse at that time. Some scenes made me cringe - were women really treated like doormats that badly?

Regardless, I really enjoyed the series - I just couldn't decide if I liked or loathed Don Draper.

 

[panteragstk]

I'm not terribly concerned about the recent trend in role reversals between straight white men vs women, POC, LGBTQ++++, etc, because we can vote with our wallets. If a production is genuinely "bad" - regardless of how characters are portrayed - it's going to reflect in the revenues it generates. Or, am I looking at it too simplistically?

On the topic though, I recently finished watching the entire "Mad Men" series and I wondered if the portrayal of social conditions was genuinely reflective of that place and time. I mean, I know that women, POC and gay people were treated worse then than now, but I'm not sure if the treatment of these people in the series was a bit too on the nose, just to make the point that it was worse at that time. Some scenes made me cringe - were women really treated like doormats that badly?

Regardless, I really enjoyed the series - I just couldn't decide if I liked or loathed Don Draper.

From the stories my mom told me about the crap she had to put with in the 80's, I'm willing to bet it was much worse in the 60's.

I mean, women couldn't even divorce unless their husband let them. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Spock]

We could save ourselves a lot of ink and breath by watching what we like, and ignoring what we don’t. Good movies can have messages, but messages do not in themselves make for good movies. In my limited experience, any movie or show that is motivated by something other than good storytelling is bound to suck.

Batwoman is particularly stupid, because the trailer highlights the protagonist’s disdain for men, while conveniently ignoring the fact that, without the gadgets provided by Batman, there would be no Batwoman. And the in-your-face lesbian scenes are the equivalent of Arnold taking time out after every explosion to have sex with some woman.

I prefer the ‘get woke, go broke’ approach. The studios don’t really care about these social issues. Once they figure out that such shows can’t make any money, they will move on to the next hot thing.

 

[Wayde Robson]

I'm not a fan of "virtue signaling" and #Woke culture but this article was unnecessary and seems overly sensitive.

Complaints that white men are portrayed negatively causes articles like this yet since the history of film and TV minorities were portrayed as stereotypes. Everyone should just relax and stop being offended.

Audioholics is great site for audio and home theater content. Leave the culture war outrage to other places.

I hear you. In the article I honestly tried to avoid just throwing another salvo into the "culture war", I know it's impossible today to make the argument I attempted and NOT seem like I'm only bitching about PC-culture in movies. It's not diversity I'm complaining about, it's the exploitative use of it. When a story is good, race/sexuality etc really doesn't matter. When diversity is incidental, we will have broken through. When it's exploited, we still have a way to go.

 

[Pogre]

Yes. I'm getting sick and tired of being called a misogynist because I didn't like "The Last Jedi". I walked out of the theater thinking "what the hell did I just see?!". Then down the road I see Ryan Johnson saying I'm a misogynist "manbaby".

Haw? I didn't like it because I didn't like it. Your shoehorned in social justice messages didn't even occurr to me. I didn't even notice that most of the rebel officers were women until it was pointed out in an article. I just wanted to see a star wars movie...

Maybe if these directors would listen to the audience and genuine critique (and there's plenty of legit, non sexist critiquing of a lot of these movies) and stop telling everyone it's their fault for not liking it they might make something we actually like.

 

[highfigh]

Call me liberal. Let's also not forget the impact conservatives had and have on film..

How much impact can Conservatives have in Hollyweird, considering the liberal bent of that place?

 

[highfigh]

The word 'Woke' is just another BS definition to be used by people who want to be able to change things through nothing but shaming others. The name-calling needs to freaking stop!

 

[highfigh]

Here's an official dare; find one media product (a movie, a series, cartoon, anything) dating from this century where men are not being portrayed as somehow inferior to women but at the same time let it not be something Trump would like. Is there such a thing?

The guy has only been in office for around 2-1/2 years- how does that fit with '...dating from this century...?

 

[Pogre]

It's not just TLJ either. The new Terminator movie (Tim Miller is already attacking fans),the Ghostbusters remake, Men in Black... story is in the back seat and the message is shoved in our faces with exaggerated behaviors and unrealistic scenarios just to make sure we can't miss the message "LOOK AT HOW WOKE WE ARE!!".

Read these quotes and see what you think as to what Tim Miller had in mind while making this movie.

"Miller, who broke out in Hollywood after directing “Deadpool,” recently spoke with Variety ahead of bringing “Terminator: Dark Fate” to Comic-Con later this month. The filmmaker said Mackenzie’s cyborg character Grace will be enough to get misogynistic internet trolls shaking in their boots.

“If you’re at all enlightened, she’ll play like gangbusters. If you’re a closet misogynist, she’ll scare the truck out of you, because she’s tough and strong but very feminine,” Miller said. “We did not trade certain gender traits for others; she’s just very strong, and that frightens some dudes. You can see online the responses to some of the early poop that’s out there, trolls on the internet. I don’t give a truck.”"

*Edit: link

What? You made this movie to make trolls shake in their boots? So, if I don't like it, then... what?

 

[RichB]

^ Another remake. "Woke" puts me to sleep

- Rich

 

[highfigh]

It's not just TLJ either. The new Terminator movie (Tim Miller is already attacking fans),the Ghostbusters remake, Men in Black... story is in the back seat and the message is shoved in our faces with exaggerated behaviors and unrealistic scenarios just to make sure we can't miss the message "LOOK AT HOW WOKE WE ARE!!".

Read these quotes and see what you think as to what Tim Miller had in mind while making this movie.

"Miller, who broke out in Hollywood after directing “Deadpool,” recently spoke with Variety ahead of bringing “Terminator: Dark Fate” to Comic-Con later this month. The filmmaker said Mackenzie’s cyborg character Grace will be enough to get misogynistic internet trolls shaking in their boots.

“If you’re at all enlightened, she’ll play like gangbusters. If you’re a closet misogynist, she’ll scare the truck out of you, because she’s tough and strong but very feminine,” Miller said. “We did not trade certain gender traits for others; she’s just very strong, and that frightens some dudes. You can see online the responses to some of the early poop that’s out there, trolls on the internet. I don’t give a truck.”"

*Edit: link

What? You made this movie to make trolls shake in their boots? So, if I don't like it, then... what?

Maybe the thought of being attracted to a cyborg is the mechanism by which he wanted to shake up the trolls. Who probably live in their parents' basement and will be getting a job, soon. At the tender age of 36.

I don't need some nimrod from Hollywood telling me that if I don't like his movie or characters, I'm not enlightened. REAL women who are smart, inventive, determined and able to deal with life are attractive, not a cyborg that's "feminine".

 

[Pogre]

I'm just worried I'm gonna find out I'm a horrible person not worthy of being heard if Mackenzie Davis doesn't play like gangbusters for me...

 

[Pogre]

Maybe the thought of being attracted to a cyborg is the mechanism by which he wanted to shake up the trolls. Who probably live in their parents' basement and will be getting a job, soon. At the tender age of 36.

I don't need some nimrod from Hollywood telling me that if I don't like his movie or characters, I'm not enlightened. REAL women who are smart, inventive, determined and able to deal with life are attractive, not a cyborg that's "feminine".

The real irony is that Sarah Conner is an og, legit badass female character. She ended up strong, smart, and a leader with the added bonus of actually being scary if you were a man and she had her sights set on you. That was her whole arc. A strong female lead was already baked into the story in a way that worked!

 

[highfigh]

The real irony is that Sarah Conner is an og, legit badass female character. She ended up strong, smart, and a leader with the added bonus of actually being scary if you were a man and she had her sights set on you. That was her whole arc. A strong female lead was already baked into the story in a way that worked!

That's one character- what about the others?

 

[Pogre]

That's one character- what about the others?

What other characters? Not being facetious, I'm not following...

 

[Kvn_Walker]

The real irony is that Sarah Conner is an og, legit badass female character. She ended up strong, smart, and a leader with the added bonus of actually being scary if you were a man and she had her sights set on you. That was her whole arc. A strong female lead was already baked into the story in a way that worked!

Ditto Ellen Ripley. Damn I miss movies like that... Alien turns 40 this year and is still an all-time classic. I doubt anything from 2019 (maybe Endgame... maybe...) will be more than a footnote in a single decade, much less 4 of them.

 

[davidscott]

Ditto Ellen Ripley. Damn I miss movies like that... Alien turns 40 this year and is still an all-time classic. I doubt anything from 2019 (maybe Endgame... maybe...) will be more than a footnote in a single decade, much less 4 of them.

Absolutely LOVED the Ellen Ripley character. Major kudos to Sigourney Weaver for her portrayal of Ripley.

 

[Pogre]

Absolutely LOVED the Ellen Ripley character. Major kudos to Sigourney Weaver for her portrayal of Ripley.

Totally agree! She was schooling SPACE MARINES!

 

[Wayde Robson]

I'm a little dismayed that some of have taken the editorial as just complaining about too many minorities in entertainment.

The problem I have with "Woke Hollywood", "woke marketing" in advertising and the punitive tone of today's PC-culture, It's exploitative and cynical.

It isn't about diversity, it's about exploiting the theme. Taking a historically male fictional character and shoehorning a lesbian vagina and calling it "diversity", it's anything but. Including declarative scenes to establish the woman's sexuality is clearly defined with an "I am WOMAN" song in the background to ensure the viewers know we're being "woke up", then taking obligatory snipes at her male counterpart... it only adds to the all too self-aware, on-the-nose spectacle. It's not interested in forwarding a noble cause, it's hijacking it.