Adding a Power Amp to my set-up?

[Paul C]

I have a Pioneer 84TXSi AV 7.1, which was Pioneer's flag ship decrete amplifier at the time, in 2006), matched with Paradigm Monitor 7.v6 series speakers. I'm wondering what is your impression on this Class B amplifier and should I add a power amplifier such as Emotiva A-5175? The reason for my question is due to the 84TXSi's over all power performance of 77W (all channels driven @ 8 ohms) and 140W (2 channels driven @8 ohms) respectfully. Will adding a power amplifier smooth out the overall power output,Thank you.

 

[markw]

Does the 84 have preamp outputs?

When you say "smooth out", are you saying it runs out of steam on peaks and clips?

 

[Verdinut]

The reason for my question is due to the 84TXSi's over all power performance of 77W (all channels driven @ 8 ohms) and 140W (2 channels driven @8 ohms) respectfully. Will adding a power amplifier smooth out the overall power output,Thank you.

Probably not with speakers having a sensitivity of 90-92 dB.

First, we need to know the following:

-Size of your listening room
-Listening distance from the main front speakers
-How loud you listen your music, what type of music (classical, pop, rock, country etc.)

Bear in mind that, in HT listening, most of the amplifying power is usually required from the three front channels, and significantly less from surround channels. An exception for instance would be the situation when a noisy object is moving from the front to the back speakers. Then the main power would be required from the back channels but at the same time relieving the front channels from high power demands.

For all practical purposes, the "All Channel Driven" performance test is most of the time irrelevant as such. The only situation where you would need equal power from all channels is if you set the playback to the " All Channel Stereo Mode". Also bear in mind that 77 watts is less than 2dB inferior to the 140 watt rating.

The following link should help you figure out if you have sufficient power for your needs:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[Verdinut]

Since your Paradigm Monitor speakers don't have a response that digs very low, what I think would improve your system's performance is the addition of one or two subwoofers, depending on the size of your room.
That would help smoothing out the low frequency response below 50 Hz and also relieving some power demand from your receiver. Should you want to explore the possibilities with a separate sub, let us know and a few of us will be happy to make suggestions accordingly.

 

[Paul C]

Does the 84 have preamp outputs?

When you say "smooth out", are you saying it runs out of steam on peaks and clips?

Does the 84 have preamp outputs?

When you say "smooth out", are you saying it runs out of steam on peaks and clips?

Yes the 84TXSi has 7.1 pre-outs.
No issues with peaks and clipping, I just want a warmer sound and more power is better than less power, even at low to medium volumes.

 

[markw]

Yes the 84TXSi has 7.1 pre-outs.

Then you CAN add a power amp if you WANT.

No issues with peaks and clipping,

Then you don't NEED a larger power amp.

I just want a warmer sound and more power is better than less power, even at low to medium volumes.

Granted, more power is better than not enough but I don't think an external amp will get you a warmer sound.

I'd be looking at different speakers for that.

 

[ryanosaur]

more power is better than less power

More power is just more power.
Amplifiers don't usually affect the sound quality, and if they do, it is subtle. Personally, I have not heard it!

Regardless, at the slightly more conservative sensitivity rating of 91dB for your speakers, you will not use more than 1 watt to reach reference level volume @ 1 meter. At a common LP of say 9', and in a medium room where you may benefit from boundary gain, you should easily clear Reference Level Dynamic Peaks with 64w. That would be over 105dB! At 128w, you would only see a 3dB increase over that, then again at 256w. (Every 3dB increase requires a doubling of power.)

This is not to say you should not buy an amp if you want, but it is important to share that it will not likely achieve your stated goal.

It is possible that newer electronics in the form of a new receiver with more modern processing abilities may improve your sound. I used to have an Onkyo HTIB from around that time and the Marantz was a significant step up from it, even using the same cr@ppy HTIB speakers. YMMV.

Cheers!

 

[lovinthehd]

Your avr has class A/B amplification, just fyi, not that it really matters. I'd think you have sufficient amplification. If you want warmth turn down the treble or work on room acoustics or get different speakers. If you do decide to get an external amp I'd step up more than the Emotiva, which is only slightly more powerful than your avr (maybe, maybe not....see Peng's info)
.

 

[PENG]

Yes the 84TXSi has 7.1 pre-outs.
No issues with peaks and clipping, I just want a warmer sound and more power is better than less power, even at low to medium volumes.

More power on hand doesn't hurt, but I agree with others that you don't need more. If you just want one then the A-5175 is not the right one because it is not much more powerful practically speaking, may actually give you a little less under some conditions.

According to S&V' s measurements, your Pioneer clipped at 191 W into 8 ohm with 2 channels driven, and 332 W into 4 ohms, 2 channel driven. I highly doubt the A-5175 can do better based on other Emo amps tested by S&V before. The 7 channel driven test is a good test to run, but is of limited practical value.

 

[Paul C]

Thank you all for your expert opinion and advice!

To be perfectly clear, I am extremely satisfied with my equipment, just want the best sound I can achieve at low to medium listening levels. The only set back is the realities of living in a rental apartment and I am not convinced that using sound panels and base traps is the way to go in this instance, given the fact that it's a rental and the dimensions of the room.

The Pioneer's MCACC room correction calibration system functions in both Automatic and Manual modes, but I perfer to manually calibrate my system. I haven't tried REW and I am really disapointed with the Mic that came with the system's MCACC. I should also mention the Mic input is 3.5mm jack and not USB.

I currently have the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi 7.1 Amp, two idenical Paradigm DSP 3100 subwoofers, Paradigm Monitor 7.v6 fronts/center channels, and Monitor 7.v7 mini-monitors for the rear channels. I'm only running my system in 5.1 channels do to my room size.

Room size is 12' W x16' L (a half wall between the kitchen & living room with a 3.5' door opening off to one side on the 12' wall, I have to place my system on the 16' wall).

Listening distance from the front main speakers is 8'.

I listen to all Genres of music at low to medium volumes levels, depending on the Genre, and rarely at full volume levels.

I am a critical listener of two channel Audio, that being said, where do I go from here to further improve the sound?

Thanks guys!

 

[lovinthehd]

At low to medium volume levels don't know why you think a more powerful amp will of particular use at that listening distance. Did you use that spl calculator verdinut linked? Usually better speakers are the way to improve sound quality. Maybe paying attention to speaker/sub placement and room acoustics (even without particular treatments).

 

[PENG]

I am a critical listener of two channel Audio, that being said, where do I go from here to further improve the sound?

Thanks guys!

As HD said, amps won't do it for you. Your Pioneer definitely has more power than you need already. If you to further improve sound quality, look to better speakers. The recording/mastering quality of the media contents is also important.

 

[Paul C]

I'm a true Paradigm enthsiast and I am considering purchasing the "Premier Series" to replace my Monitor 7.v6's.
Is it worth the upgrade, considering all I've covered in my first/previous post?,... and yes my budget is lean.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm a true Paradigm enthsiast and I am considering purchasing the "Premier Series" to replace my Monitor 7.v6's.
Is it worth the upgrade, considering all I've covered in my first/previous post?,... and yes my budget is lean.

That sounds like something only you can determine.

 

[Pogre]

Since your Paradigm Monitor speakers don't have a response that digs very low, what I think would improve your system's performance is the addition of one or two subwoofers, depending on the size of your room.
That would help smoothing out the low frequency response below 50 Hz and also relieving some power demand from your receiver. Should you want to explore the possibilities with a separate sub, let us know and a few of us will be happy to make suggestions accordingly.

Oh I second this. Properly set up subs add more than just bass. A good sub (or 2) can really help clean the whole system up. For me it was the 2nd biggest jump in sq after my speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh I second this. Properly set up subs add more than just bass. A good sub (or 2) can really help clean the whole system up. For me it was the 2nd biggest jump in sq after my speakers.

Earlier in the thread I was thinking of when you added the Monolith 7 to your setup and some of your comments afterwards.

 

[Pogre]

Earlier in the thread I was thinking of when you added the Monolith 7 to your setup and some of your comments afterwards.

Yeah, it wasn't like clouds parted and sunbeams started shining out of my speakers, and I wasn't expecting that. I sense more stability (or effortlessness?) at higher volumes and I definitely don't have to worry about dynamic power, but it wasn't like a big sq upgrade. I just wanted a big amp to go with my big speakers, lol.

I don't regret either purchase, but good, quality subs, set up properly made so much more of an impact than the new amp. They really did clean up my whole system.

I still think about you talking me into getting bigger subs and I was pretty resistant. I was running a pair of 10" Klipsch subs at the time and thought any more than that would have been superfluous... Oh how things have changed!

 

[Rajith]

I have a Pioneer 84TXSi AV 7.1, which was Pioneer's flag ship decrete amplifier at the time, in 2006), matched with Paradigm Monitor 7.v6 series speakers. I'm wondering what is your impression on this Class B amplifier and should I add a power amplifier such as Emotiva A-5175? The reason for my question is due to the 84TXSi's over all power performance of 77W (all channels driven @ 8 ohms) and 140W (2 channels driven @8 ohms) respectfully. Will adding a power amplifier smooth out the overall power output,Thank you.

IMO if budget is not a constraint then you can. Adding a good power amp will have greater dynamics and head room to the system. (I have this experience when I have added ATI power amp to my Marantz SR8012 AVR.)

 

[PENG]

IMO if budget is not a constraint then you can. Adding a good power amp will have greater dynamics and head room to the system. (I have this experience when I have added ATI power amp to my Marantz SR8012 AVR.)

Absolutely true, but will only make a difference if the head room is put to use. Some people think the more powerful AT6000 will sound better than the AT4000 even though their amp never peaks near 100 W in their use. Amps in something like those in the SR8012 and ATI's should have no sound of their own, when used well within their output limit.

 

[ski2xblack]

@Paul C , you mentioned wanting the best sound at low to medium listening levels. Although nobody has mentioned it yet, a basic reality you need to keep in mind is that human hearing is less sensitive to certain frequencies at lower sound pressure levels (Google up "fletcher munson" for the full scoop). So before adding amps or changing speakers I would encourage you to try equalization to achieve your stated goals.

I am unfamiliar with what sort of loudness compensation eq your Pioneer offers (the equivalent in Audyssey equipped kit is "dynamic eq" and for Yamaha kit it's "YPAO volume"...I suspect the Pioneer has something similar).