Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[little wing]

I'll never do business with FRY's ever again.


On a side note, I went on A4L and purchased a Marantz 6013 for 799, free shipping and full 3 year warrany.

I was going to save some money on the 6012 but by the time I paid for shipping and additional warranty to cover 3 years I'd be at around the price i paid for the 6013. I wanted to spend around 800 on an upgrade which i believe is more than enough for an AVR (for myself anyway.)

Wouldn't you know it, I paid via PayPal and the transaction came straight out of my account. No issues whatsoever.

The unit has everything I'll ever need. I along with my wife love the way it looks. Internals including heat sinks look very hefty and high quality which seems like a good thing.

We'll see how it holds up. If it doesn't I've got 3 years to cover me, so no worries there.

That's awesome. Good luck with the Marantz. You got great piece for a great price! fry's will eventually learn that you can't treat people that way. And it will come back on them, one way or another.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Haven’t heard this about Fry’s. But I never searched them.

I guess if you can find the sale at a Fry’s store, then good. But guess online is questionable.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm sure many upgraded to 4K, though I am perfectly happy with 1080

@Phase 2 and I are already planning on upgrading to 8K and you’re still at 2K?

 

[KEW]

@Phase 2 and I are already planning on upgrading to 8K and you’re still at 2K?

Am I at 2K?
I always figured 1080 was 1K!!!

 

[Ken32]

Haven’t heard this about Fry’s. But I never searched them.

I guess if you can find the sale at a Fry’s store, then good. But guess online is questionable.

They seemed highly rated. So, i figured I’d try them. Big mistake! Never again with them. I don’t care how good the deal. I’ll pay extra elsewhere.

 

[KEW]

Re: Planned obsolescence:

The question is, is this on purpose or as a adverse effect of the growing complexity (features) and number of Channels (5Ch vs 9 vs 13)?

As I understood it it is a deliberate decision to keep costs down by all of the main AVR manufacturers.

 

[Ken32]

That's awesome. Good luck with the Marantz. You got great piece for a great price! fry's will eventually learn that you can't treat people that way. And it will come back on them, one way or another.

Thanks! It got great reviews. I’m pretty excited about it. The magnolia i went to had a 6012 hooked up. Me and the wife fell in love with it.

I have no doubt the 6013 will serve me well. Like I said before, if it decides to crap out.... well, that’s what warranties are for

 

[Verdinut]

The question is, is this on purpose or as a adverse effect of the growing complexity (features) and number of Channels (5Ch vs 9 vs 13)?

Too bad there’s not any stats on reliability vs number of Channels.

It seems obvious however that the number of amplifier channels in a similar size chassis space would be indirectly proportional to reliability.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Am I at 2K?
I always figured 1080 was 1K!!!

These people round up.

1920 x 1080 = 2K
3840 x 2160 = 4K
7680 x 4320 = 8K

 

[PENG]

On a side note, I went on A4L and purchased a Marantz 6013 for 799, free shipping and full 3 year warrany.

That's a huge discount from the launch price. I bet if you put one of the AC infinity fan on top of the unit, it may last as long as the RX-A1080.

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation/dp/B00IJ2J2K0/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ac+infinity+usb+fan&qid=1561985277&s=gateway&sr=8-2

If you have 3 inches or more of clearance on top, one single 120 mm one set to the lowest speed (for quietness) should do the job.

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation/dp/B00G05A2MU/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=ac+infinity+usb+fan&qid=1561985277&s=gateway&sr=8-4

 

[Ken32]

That's a huge discount from the launch price. I bet if you put one of the AC infinity fan on top of the unit, it may last as long as the RX-A1080.

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation/dp/B00IJ2J2K0/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ac+infinity+usb+fan&qid=1561985277&s=gateway&sr=8-2

If you have 3 inches or more of clearance on top, one single 120 mm one set to the lowest speed (for quietness) should do the job.

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation/dp/B00G05A2MU/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=ac+infinity+usb+fan&qid=1561985277&s=gateway&sr=8-4

I have a complete open media stand (no walls) just 3 tiers of glass. I think I’ll have more than enough room to toss a fan on top of need be. I have measured just yet.

If not, looks like a trip to Lowe’s to get materials for a dedicated shelf. I’ve got several ideas already

It’s already shipped and says it’ll be here Wednesday. Just in time for the 4th!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Re: Planned obsolescence:
As I understood it it is a deliberate decision to keep costs down by all of the main AVR manufacturers.

That's just pure evil then.

It seems obvious however that the number of amplifier channels in a similar size chassis space would be indirectly proportional to reliability.

Rising number of channel amps, channel processing, circuit boards, Input/Output connectors, and all of the above.

13Ch processing preamp dumped in the same chassis with 13Ch amps and circuit boards.

 

[KEW]

That's just pure evil then.

Well, I guess that depends on how you coach the question!
If we took a poll of "how many would prefer that their AVR be designed to fail after around 10 years?"
I think most everyone would agree that is a travesty!
But if we gave people the option to get a 50% discount by choosing a 10 year AVR (instead of 20), I think almost everyone would prefer to use the money saved to be able to buy an updated unit after the 10 years is up.

Of course, I made up the 50% discount. But it makes a point that we are generally willing to accept it if the price is right! I have no idea how much is saved by using a design life of 10 years. I do believe it would be incredibly difficult to design and manufacture an AVR with any real assurance that it would last 20 years (maybe impossible?)! I bet the best effort at this would cost well over 2X a 10 year unit. I'd guess 15 years might be the average for a modern AVR (with complex processing like Auddysey, Atmos, etc) if they chose not to go with 10 years! They are just very, very complex devices!

I might imagine that Anthem is not quite so far on-board the planned obsolescence train as the bigger players, but that is why I am not willing to afford them. I, personally, consider an AVR (if I will use it as an AVR and not just a stereo receiver) as something I would replace (or re-purpose) every 8-10 years. I guess that makes me an accomplice to your "pure evil"!

Does Bryston make an AVR with their warranty?

 

[M Code]

Keep in mind...
Virtually all AVR brands lose $$$....
They have no choice but to survive and continue trying to decrease their FOB cost & reduce warranty costs so any internal component over-design is likely gone. Additionally many of the popular audio brands outsource all and/or the majority of their AVRs, so their subcontracting factory is also making $ gross margin. Now that United Audio controls (6) AVR brands (Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, Elite) it will be interesting to see which brands can succeed & survive....

Just my $0.02...

 

[KEW]

Keep in mind...
Virtually all AVR brands lose $$$....

Are the really losing money in an absolute manner?
I don't get that, why would they continue to stay in business (and how did United Audio justify spending money to buy Onkyo, et al. - Onkyo should be paying them to take the business off of their hands!)

 

[snakeeyes]

Well, I guess that depends on how you coach the question!
If we took a poll of "how many would prefer that their AVR be designed to fail after around 10 years?"
I think most everyone would agree that is a travesty!
But if we gave people the option to get a 50% discount by choosing a 10 year AVR (instead of 20), I think almost everyone would prefer to use the money saved to be able to buy an updated unit after the 10 years is up.

Of course, I made up the 50% discount. But it makes a point that we are generally willing to accept it if the price is right! I have no idea how much is saved by using a design life of 10 years. I do believe it would be incredibly difficult to design and manufacture an AVR with any real assurance that it would last 20 years (maybe impossible?)! I bet the best effort at this would cost well over 2X a 10 year unit. I'd guess 15 years might be the average for a modern AVR (with complex processing like Auddysey, Atmos, etc) if they chose not to go with 10 years! They are just very, very complex devices!

I might imagine that Anthem is not quite so far on-board the planned obsolescence train as the bigger players, but that is why I am not willing to afford them. I, personally, consider an AVR (if I will use it as an AVR and not just a stereo receiver) as something I would replace (or re-purpose) every 8-10 years. I guess that makes me an accomplice to your "pure evil"!

Does Bryston make an AVR with their warranty?

All I heard was 50% off. LOL

 

[KEW]

All I heard was 50% off. LOL

Case closed!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, I guess that depends on how you coach the question!
If we took a poll of "how many would prefer that their AVR be designed to fail after around 10 years?"
I think most everyone would agree that is a travesty!
But if we gave people the option to get a 50% discount by choosing a 10 year AVR (instead of 20), I think almost everyone would prefer to use the money saved to be able to buy an updated unit after the 10 years is up.

Of course, I made up the 50% discount. But it makes a point that we are generally willing to accept it if the price is right! I have no idea how much is saved by using a design life of 10 years. I do believe it would be incredibly difficult to design and manufacture an AVR with any real assurance that it would last 20 years (maybe impossible?)! I bet the best effort at this would cost well over 2X a 10 year unit. I'd guess 15 years might be the average for a modern AVR (with complex processing like Auddysey, Atmos, etc) if they chose not to go with 10 years! They are just very, very complex devices!

I might imagine that Anthem is not quite so far on-board the planned obsolescence train as the bigger players, but that is why I am not willing to afford them. I, personally, consider an AVR (if I will use it as an AVR and not just a stereo receiver) as something I would replace (or re-purpose) every 8-10 years. I guess that makes me an accomplice to your "pure evil"!

Does Bryston make an AVR with their warranty?

Do they have a 5YR plan at 90% discount?

I would be quite satisfied with 10YR AVR/AVP-life.

IOW, I would be quite satisfied if my CX-A5100 lasts 10YR.

The ATI amp better last 20+YR since it's heavy as heck.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now that United Audio controls (6) AVR brands (Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, Elite) it will be interesting to see which brands can succeed & survive....

Let me put $200 on Marantz and another $100 on Denon.

Say bye-bye to the other 4 brands.

AVR has always really been Yamaha vs. Denon/Marantz anyway.

 

[M Code]

Are the really losing money in an absolute manner?
I don't get that, why would they continue to stay in business (and how did United Audio justify spending money to buy Onkyo, et al. - Onkyo should be paying them to take the business off of their hands!)

Yup...
Losing big $... Key points are frequently these brands are picked up by a 3rd party absorbing their sizable debts for a lower amount.. Just look up Bain Capitol and review the long list of large companies (Mervyns, Chrysler, D&M Holdings) they have taken control of, next they drained the liquid assets (cash, real estate) and then spin the remaining shell off....

Regarding United Audio....
Not being inside 1 can only speculate but..
Note that Marantz & Denon don't have their own cost-competitive factory to build their best selling AVRs since Inkel/Sherwood in Vietnam builds them... However, Onkyo/Integra has their own well automated, cost-competitive factory in Malaysia (like Yamaha). Also the Onkyo/Integra design team is well experienced as they absorbed the well-respected Harman/Kardon AVR team a few years back...

Again 1 can only surmise but I would think United Audio will trim down the AVR brands to (3) Marantz, Denon, Onkyo. They could discontinue Integra, Elite and sell off the Pioneer brand to a 3rd party. Again this only conjecture in my opinion.. Stay tuned as more develops..

Just my $0.02...