Food For Thought About Subwoofers

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Did you ever measure your room to see what your subs are actually producing?

It's producing the best bass I have ever heard.

So I have not measured yet.

Now everything sounds better than ever, especially the bass. So not feeling the desire to measure yet.

If it ain't broken......

But one of these days I might just get bored. Maybe. Then maybe I'll measure.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, since I was banned for a day because of my reply back to you, i guess i received the punishment you think i deserved. I think this has more to do with the butthurt political posts directed towards you versus my sarcasm in my remarks in this thread. Offended much?? I lean more towards the sceptical within this hobby of ours in many subjects so get used to it. Many of my comments will reflect a bit of sarcasm as we move forward. Too many of you focus on graphics and numbers instead of sitting down, tuning and listening like it used to be. Graphs and numbers should be a guide to success not an end all be all. Subwoofers are easy to set up if you stick to the basics and keep your goals realistic. Like everything else with life, technology advances however, the foundation of this hobby in which it has been founded gets lost. If you don't like my posts, move on. Do you really care what i have to say?? It appears so...

WOW! l actually, I had no idea you were banned for a day, and I have no such power to do so. I figured you made a drunken rant post and removed it yourself. you know, out of the kindness of your heart and all.
Butthurt political posts? Don't remember those. huh... Me, offended? takes a lot to offend me, don't take so much credit! As for sarcasm, I'm game, can be pretty sarcastic and cynical myself, thank you very much.
As for graphics and numbers, it's true that it's easy to get sucked in to the rabbit hole. I used to tune my system by ear and SPL meter for a long time. Then i realized i could take it a lot further. something you might consider. My "Butthurtness", as you say had nothing to do with me directly. That was all about you disregarding a practice that many of us use here to make sure our subs are dialed in as good as can be. A process used my many professionals. Do you think Mark Seaton would just sit down and tune a system by ear and SPL meter? It was the dismissive nature that you used to reference the practice of measuring and calibrating, while admitting you had no experience with subwoofers of <30hz capability, and said REW was too time consuming. That's why I made the 16 year old driver comment.
How can you say something is useless when you admit to having no experience with it? I am NOT saying to only use graphs and numbers, but to say that people posting their 16hz graphs with $5000 SVS subs aren't filling the room and they're full of BS is just nonsensical.(like how do know?) Above, you said to keep it simple. Maybe to some of us, REW IS simple.(after the learning curve.) There is a lot to learn about your systems performance with REW. Impulse response, RT times, XO integration, and on and on. You can discount these if you want, and i won't begrudge you for doing so, but don't offer advice that discounts these in favor of just sitting and listening and twisting knobs. this aint the polk forums...

 

[KirkJBL590]

Then there's also the WIFE factor. Most wives would have issues with their dishes, cups, and windows rattling.

So not everyone needs a giant subwoofer. If your subwoofer sounds great, there is no need to replace it unless you just feel like it replacing it or adding nine more.

I have a different viewpoint on the wife thing. I run my household and am the dominant force in my relationship. Too many beta males out there allowing their spouses to dictate their hobbies. Some of these women try forcing you to sell your sports cars, motorcycles etc for what?? So they can lead you around by your balls?? I don't think so, not this guy. Im old school. Not gonna happen. She likes my equipment, loves the huge JBL's and enjoys her music and movies. I teach her how to use it. I involve her in my hobbies. You never allow a female to dictate your hobbies let alone anything else. However, im respectful. Would never turn it up where it would bother her sleeping or if she's in a mood or break her things.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Im sure they do however, he was able to post a provocative statement towards me accusing me of wanting attention?? He's a big liberal and i made a mockery out of him in a thread in that forum and he's butthurt over it.

I didn't say you wanted attention.
I said, you wanted VALIDATION, NOT A CONVERSATION.
you call me a fukkin liberal again and I will come and push in your damn dust caps!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have a different viewpoint on the wife thing. I run my household and am the dominant force in my relationship. Too many beta males out there allowing their spouses to dictate their hobbies. Some of these women try forcing you to sell your sports cars, motorcycles etc for what?? So they can lead you around by your balls?? I don't think so, not this guy. Im old school. Not gonna happen. She likes my equipment, loves the huge JBL's and enjoys her music and movies. I teach her how to use it. I involve her in my hobbies. You never allow a female to dictate your hobbies let alone anything else. However, im respectful. Would never turn it up where it would bother her sleeping or if she's in a mood or break her things.

Look! something we can agree on. I hate when guys come on here looking for a teeny tiny subwoofer, or BS speakers that can be stuffed in some cubby hole in an entertainment center, because their wife doesn't want to "see all those ugly boxes". I hear the same crap at home, but guess what, I live here too. So that means i do not get vetoed. I'm lucky enough to have 7.3.4 in my living room, and it's not going anywhere!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Gene as always would be correct...I have my sub at a subtractive EQ centered at 50hz down at 4-5db with a Q factor of 2.4 through a built in PEQ in the Outlaw 976. This brought down the levels between 40-60hz closer to flat so they weren't dominant in the bass and sounds much better where i can turn up the volume and fill the room more evenly. In my opinion, you need EQ for bass. You're always going to have peaks to deal with and especially around or at 50hz.

just curious, how did you choose 50hz? I agree that 50 can be an obnoxious range. just wondering how you got there.

 

[KirkJBL590]

WOW! l actually, I had no idea you were banned for a day, and I have no such power to do so. I figured you made a drunken rant post and removed it yourself. you know, out of the kindness of your heart and all.
Butthurt political posts? Don't remember those. huh... Me, offended? takes a lot to offend me, don't take so much credit! As for sarcasm, I'm game, can be pretty sarcastic and cynical myself, thank you very much.
As for graphics and numbers, it's true that it's easy to get sucked in to the rabbit hole. I used to tune my system by ear and SPL meter for a long time. Then i realized i could take it a lot further. something you might consider. My "Butthurtness", as you say had nothing to do with me directly. That was all about you disregarding a practice that many of us use here to make sure our subs are dialed in as good as can be. A process used my many professionals. Do you think Mark Seaton would just sit down and tune a system by ear and SPL meter? It was the dismissive nature that you used to reference the practice of measuring and calibrating, while admitting you had no experience with subwoofers of <30hz capability, and said REW was too time consuming. That's why I made the 16 year old driver comment.
How can you say something is useless when you admit to having no experience with it? I am NOT saying to only use graphs and numbers, but to say that people posting their 16hz graphs with $5000 SVS subs aren't filling the room and they're full of BS is just nonsensical.(like how do know?) Above, you said to keep it simple. Maybe to some of us, REW IS simple.(after the learning curve.) There is a lot to learn about your systems performance with REW. Impulse response, RT times, XO integration, and on and on. You can discount these if you want, and i won't begrudge you for doing so, but don't offer advice that discounts these in favor of just sitting and listening and twisting knobs. this aint the polk forums...

Nice defense and false assumptions. It's cool dude, just move on. I don't spend endless hours fooling around with REW. I've used it, yes it works. However, if you like to tweak with toe in and out, rake angles, room treatments, subwoofer placements, replacement of gear etc, you need to conduct an EQ session every single time if you're all about accuracy and perfection. The slightest movement of a speaker or subwoofer changes frequency response. REW is great when you're done. Other than that, you're spinning your wheels. Now you can use it to help you with tweaks and placement, equipment changes etc. But what happens most of the time is you end up changing what the graph says because it ends up sounding bad. Not all of the time but allot of the time. So you can stop lecturing me about REW. If it works for you, great. I use it as a guide, that's it. My ears are the determining factor, not the graphic...

 

[KirkJBL590]

just curious, how did you choose 50hz? I agree that 50 can be an obnoxious range. just wondering how you got there.

You're gonna laugh but before i was aware of programs like REW, i did it like we did in the old days. Play a test cd and measure the frequency response with an SPL meter. Anything above and below your reference is what needs to be eq'd. Log the numbers and adjust with your equalizer then retest. Works pretty well. The REW program later on proved me to be correct.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You're gonna laugh but before i was aware of programs like REW, i did it like we did in the old days. Play a test cd and measure the frequency response with an SPL meter. Anything above and below your reference is what needs to be eq'd. Log the numbers and adjust with your equalizer then retest. Works pretty well. The REW program later on proved me to be correct.

Actually won’t laugh at all. I can show you old plots I made on graph paper with test tones and my spl. Archaic? Yeah but it’s what was available to me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I use it (REW) as a guide, that's it. My ears are the determining factor, not the graphic...

Yep.

I guess if I couldn't get my system to sound great, then I'm sure I could find a good excuse to measure all kinds of things.

But like you said, at the end of the day, if your system (speakers, subs, etc.) sounds amazing, then there's no need to measure just for the sake of measuring.

Now if I were doing a professional review, then, yes, I would feel obligated to measure everything. But since I'm not doing any professional reviews and my system sounds so awesome and I am 100% ecstatic with it, I just don't feel the urge to measure anything.

I do have the urge to watch a lot of good movies, TV shows, and listen to some great music.

 

[bigkrazy155]

@William Lemmerhirt @KirkJBL590 bravo to both of you for course correcting this thread!

 

[KirkJBL590]

Yep.

I guess if I couldn't get my system to sound great, then I'm sure I could find a good excuse to measure all kinds of things.

But like you said, at the end of the day, if your system (speakers, subs, etc.) sounds amazing, then there's no need to measure just for the sake of measuring.

Now if I were doing a professional review, then, yes, I would feel obligated to measure everything. But since I'm not doing any professional reviews and my system sounds so awesome and I am 100% ecstatic with it, I just don't feel the urge to measure anything.

I do have the urge to watch a lot of good movies, TV shows, and listen to some great music.

Yep, once i learn and document what everything is doing in my room and room limitations, im pretty much done. If i swap out a sub or replace a speaker, i do testing to see what's changed or if something is better. But after that, im done. Last weekend, i towed out the JBL's another 1/4 inch. My god, the room came alive. I couldn't believe a 1/4 inch coupled with the room like it did. However, im not going to run another REW program. Waste of time.

 

[panteragstk]

It's producing the best bass I have ever heard.

So I have not measured yet.

Now everything sounds better than ever, especially the bass. So not feeling the desire to measure yet.

If it ain't broken......

But one of these days I might just get bored. Maybe. Then maybe I'll measure.

Well, your measurements would be for us. Sure, they may tell you something about your room, but more eye candy for the group.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, your measurements would be for us. Sure, they may tell you something about your room, but more eye candy for the group.

One of these days....eventually.

 

[KEW]

Well, since I was banned for a day because of my reply back to you, i guess i received the punishment you think i deserved. I think this has more to do with the butthurt political posts directed towards you versus my sarcasm in my remarks in this thread. Offended much?? I lean more towards the sceptical within this hobby of ours in many subjects so get used to it. Many of my comments will reflect a bit of sarcasm as we move forward. Too many of you focus on graphics and numbers instead of sitting down, tuning and listening like it used to be. Graphs and numbers should be a guide to success not an end all be all. Subwoofers are easy to set up if you stick to the basics and keep your goals realistic. Like everything else with life, technology advances however, the foundation of this hobby in which it has been founded gets lost. If you don't like my posts, move on. Do you really care what i have to say?? It appears so...

You have been on this forum for less than a month. For those of us that have been here for years we have seen a long standing pattern of reasonable punishment. You can feel like you were wrongly singled out for a political post, but if that truly is the case, it is something new here.