Help with first time external amp config

[sven1olaf]

edited: *now easier to read*

Hi all,

It might be time to look at getting an external amp in prep for rounding out the system with sv-661r's up front. I know a little about amps, but have never had a dedicated external for av before.

Current System:
AVR: Marantz SR7013
L/F: RBH SV-61R
C: Focal 800CCV
S (2): Focal 807V
H (4): Phoenix gold's, but have x2 RBH VM-615L's to install for 5.2.2
Sub (2): Sunfire HRS-12

Replacement Plan:
L/F: RBH SV-661r
C: RBH SV-661cr
H (2): RBH VM-615L
Amp: *need something with more consistent power for bed 5, and to take some of the load off the 7013*

I am thinking one of the following solutions:

• x5 Emotiva m- blocks (on special now)
• ATI AT525NC
• Adcom GFA 5705
• Outlaw 5000
• Monolith 5 channel.
• There is significant cost and performance variance between these options so any feedback, or guidance, is appreciated.

Also, I need to look into the necessary details associated with taking this step:

• rack versus console
• AVR - amp cabling
• amp incoming power requirements
• accessories like power line conditioning
• trigger signaling
• how to calibrate with an amp in line.
• Any advice on these topics, or anything I missed, is appreciated.

Thanks for the help guys! What a journey.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not sure what you mean by rack vs console?
Your avr has only rca pre-outs so rca cables from those to the inputs on the power amp.
Amp needs a certain level of voltage to perform to rated output, spec is called sensitivity, often in range of 1V-2V. Your Marantz pre-out voltage will likely be fine with all of them.
Never used a power conditioner in 45 years, amps do fine with wall outlets, they can handle swings in voltage just fine usually.
12V triggers are fairly common and believe your avr is already equipped with such; an alternative is a smart power strip (what I use for some amps without a trigger)
Same way you calibrated using the avr's amps alone (re-run Audyssey or whatever you did before)

All those amps are fine, they differ somewhat in power and price so choose a combo you like. Personally I'd also look at Crown XLS amps (I have several). You can always use an spl calculator to get an idea of what your power will translate to at your seat...http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[sven1olaf]

Not sure what you mean by rack vs console?
Your avr has only rca pre-outs so rca cables from those to the inputs on the power amp.
Amp needs a certain level of voltage to perform to rated output, spec is called sensitivity, often in range of 1V-2V. Your Marantz pre-out voltage will likely be fine with all of them.
Never used a power conditioner in 45 years, amps do fine with wall outlets, they can handle swings in voltage just fine usually.
12V triggers are fairly common and believe your avr is already equipped with such; an alternative is a smart power strip (what I use for some amps without a trigger)
Same way you calibrated using the avr's amps alone (re-run Audyssey or whatever you did before)

All those amps are fine, they differ somewhat in power and price so choose a combo you like. Personally I'd also look at Crown XLS amps (I have several). You can always use an spl calculator to get an idea of what your power will translate to at your seat...http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Lovin, I will look into the Crown XLS as well! Thanks.

As for your responses to my questions, let me help clarify:

Rack vs. Console: more of an aesthetic equipment choice than anything. Should I get a small rack system, or look for a console that will house all of the equipment?

RCA Cables, AVR- Amp: yup, I'll need a single cable for each channel going to the amp. Is there a preferred brand for this, or does it fall into the "speaker wire madness" category?

Incoming Power Requirements: is a standard 120V, 15A circuit enough?

Power Conditioner: glad to hear its not necessary!

12V Trigger: the 7013 has a 12V trigger output, but I've never used this before. Which cable type is needed to run from this to the amp?

Calibration: So you just operate as normal, with the amps inserted in the speaker path? Sounds easy enough.

As far as actual hardware goes. I won't need any sort of combo, just one or the other. I can advantages and disadvantages to having x5 individual amps running each speaker, but what is the current line of thinking on this? From there, the quality associated with brands like ATI and ADCOM speaks for itself. Is there value in brand?

Thanks again!

 

[ryanosaur]

Rack vs. Console: more of an aesthetic equipment choice than anything. Should I get a small rack system, or look for a console that will house all of the equipment?

As long as there is ample ventilation space for your gear... that is personal preference. You want at least 6-8" on sides and top... more is better, and room behind for wires and access.

RCA Cables, AVR- Amp: yup, I'll need a single cable for each channel going to the amp. Is there a preferred brand for this, or does it fall into the "speaker wire madness" category?

This is a short, low voltage run, usually... shouldn't be problematic. I'm using 20+yr old RCAs to connect to my Amps. If you want to be worried, look at something like the Subwoofer cables from Monoprice which will have some shielding as well.

Incoming Power Requirements: is a standard 120V, 15A circuit enough?

I have all my gear on a single circuit, along with my computer, and outlets from other rooms... I have'nt blown anything yet. *knocks on wood Many suggest, and it isn't a bad idea, to have a single dedicated 20A circuit for your receiver and Amps (If you choose to add them).

12V Trigger: the 7013 has a 12V trigger output, but I've never used this before. Which cable type is needed to run from this to the amp?

Usually an 1/8 in analog jack... like a headphone plug... some triggers work with the "Stereo" option, others, like mine, want the "Mono" option. It is also recommended to not daisy chain more than 3 amps off of that Trigger Jack on the Marantz. You can... but damage to system is a possibiility according to the cats at Outlaw.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ah. Can't help you with what you prefer. I use simple open air racks (more like a series of shelves/platforms). Next one will be diy, too. The amps will fit either way, altho you may need to think about air/cooling in an enclosed cabinet.

Speaker wire madness....Monoprice, Mediabridge, Amazon Basics all have perfectly fine rca cables.

I only have a 15A and run my avr, tv, two Crown XLS1500s (powering 3 subs and a tactile transducer) and a sub with a 500w plate amp. Re wiring would be cost prohibitive and just not needed for my use. YMMV.

Check your owner's manual for the avr/amp combo. Believe mostly it's a simple 1/8"/3.5mm cable like this https://www.amazon.com/Ancable-Trigger-Cable-Monaural-Audio/dp/B0749JGV2F/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=trigger+cable+12v&qid=1560131264&s=gateway&sr=8-2. The Crowns don't have a standard one, you'd have to make your own for that (plans on the internet of course).

Not just plug the amps in but re-run whatever calibration routine (Audyssey for example or your own spl meter etc).

ATI makes the Monolith amp for example, and some of Outlaw's too (not the 5000 or monoblocks IIRC). I just use an amp forever so resale value has little meaning to me. Monoblocks to me are just too many power cords to deal with for 5 channels but it works for Ryan

 

[ryanosaur]

I have one power strip for my Amps, going to its own wall outlet, and a second Power Strip for the rest of the gear, excuding Subs, which are each plugged into their own wall outlet close to their homes.

 

[ryanosaur]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Swerd]

Your Marantz SR7013 receiver is rated at 110 watts per channel when 2 channels are involved. There is no need to get external amplification for all 5 channels.

Why not use your SR7013's internal amplification for the rear & center channel speakers? Then you can look for a 2 (or 3) channel external amp that will drive the LR (or LCR) front speakers. Fewer 3 channel external amps seem to be available, so you might have to get a 2 channel amp. This would cost less and use less shelf space.

For years I've been using an external 2 channel amp to drive my front L & R speakers, while using my AVR to drive the center & rear speakers. No problems and no regrets.

 

[highfigh]

Incoming Power Requirements: is a standard 120V, 15A circuit enough?

Not that it's always an easy thing to do, but look into having a dedicated 20A circuit for the AV system- Gene has a recent YouTube video and he mentioned that the measured output from an AVR was significantly lower on a 15A circuit.

 

[sven1olaf]

Not that it's always an easy thing to do, but look into having a dedicated 20A circuit for the AV system- Gene has a recent YouTube video and he mentioned that the measured output from an AVR was significantly lower on a 15A circuit.

Yeah I'm going to look into it.

I had a dedicated duplex 20A circuit run in my last room, but it was really easy to do.

This room continues to be a challenge every time I turn around. So, I'm not holding my breath.

But thank you all for the input!

 

[PENG]

Yeah I'm going to look into it.

I had a dedicated duplex 20A circuit run in my last room, but it was really easy to do.

This room continues to be a challenge every time I turn around. So, I'm not holding my breath.

But thank you all for the input!

The SR7013 can do very well on its own for a 5.1 system, as long as you don't sit too far from your speakers. If you sit 10 ft from the larger sv-661r speakers and want reference level spl then adding an ATI523NC will help, but the difference is only about 2 dB more, hardly worth the trouble if you can simply dial the volume down two clicks.

A dedicated 15 A outlet should be enough for those speakers unless it happens to be a long run. You won't gain from a 20 A outlet as it would be extremely rare for all 5 channels to be peaking to the upper of a 200 WPC amp simultaneously. Gene might expect more output from a 20 A line but that's for his tests that would include ACD and dynamic output tests. Even then, he wouldn't expect much more than 15-20%, and that would translate to less than 1 dB SPL. The X8500H they were reviewing supposedly could output close to 1600 W maximum, so if pushed to that limit, a 20 A line would be required to avoid excessive voltage drop during the tests. That would be the case too if you opt for a multichannel external amp, but for real world use I highly doubt you have to worry. By the way, all those 200 WX5 amp you listed would mostly come with a 15 A rated power cord, but obviously those are only a few feet long.

 

[sven1olaf]

Nice catch on the current rating of power cord. That would obviously be the limiting determinant in the equation.

I will see if the 15A line running behind the dreaded built in is dedicated, but I highly doubt it given the decisions they made.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I bet 99.9% of the time, guys who own AVRs (especially higher-end models) don't even need external amps.

But it's a hobby and it's not always about need, is it?

I don't need ten subwoofers in my room, but it sure feels good. Haha.

What's powering my 10 subwoofers? A single ATI AT2005 amp. These amps can power just about anything, can't they?

 

[PENG]

Nice catch on the current rating of power cord. That would obviously be the limiting determinant in the equation.

I will see if the 15A line running behind the dreaded built in is dedicated, but I highly doubt it given the decisions they made.

You got it, unless you asked for it when you had the house built, a 15A circuit will likely have 6 or more outlets on it. You can identify all the outlets and lights on that circuit and then you should be able to figure out the loading aside from your AVR and/or amplifiers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You got it, unless you asked for it when you had the house built, a 15A circuit will likely have 6 or more outlets on it. You can identify all the outlets and lights on that circuit and then you should be able to figure out the loading aside from your AVR and/or amplifiers.

How can you easily tell if your house circuits is 20A or 15A? Does it say on the fuse box?

On my fuse box, everything says "20", except for big stuffs like HOT WATER HEATER ("30"), and Geothermal HVAC ("60").

When I was building my house, I told my builder and electrician that I wanted 20A throughout the house --- none of that 15A stuff.

They looked at me and said that they use 20A in every house now - like 15A was so outdated.

 

[PENG]

How can you easily tell if your house circuits is 20A or 15A? Does it say on the fuse box?

On my fuse box, everything says "20", except for big stuffs like HOT WATER HEATER ("30"), and Geothermal HVAC ("60").

When I was building my house, I told my builder and electrician that I wanted 20A throughout the house --- none of that 15A stuff.

They looked at me and said that they use 20A in every house now - like 15A was so outdated.

20 A circuit should be controlled by 20 A breakers. If you look at your panel board you should see some 20A breakers, one for each circuit.

The wall outlets should look like this:
Note that the neutral side is T (side way) shaped.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

20 A circuit should be controlled by 20 A breakers. If you look at your panel board you should see some 20A breakers, one for each circuit.
The wall outlets should look like this:
Note that the neutral side is T (side way) shaped.

Yep. That’s what they look like. So every circuit/breaker is either 20A, 30A, 40A, or 60A.

 

[PENG]

Yep. That’s what they look like. So every circuit/breaker is either 20A, 30A, 40A, or 60A.

You are all set, not a single 15A that I can see. I think it is a good idea to use 20 A circuits in a larger house because of the distance anyway. Double the length = double the impedance = double the voltage drop. Hopefully your big amps are not fed by the longest run.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You are all set, not a single 15A that I can see. I think it is a good idea to use 20 A circuits in a larger house because of the distance anyway. Double the length = double the impedance = double the voltage drop. Hopefully you big amps are not fed by the longest run.

Yeah, my Media Closet has 2 x 20A circuits. The ATI AT2005 gets one, the Yamaha MX-A5000 gets the other one.

 

[sven1olaf]

Yet another reason to build my own house next time!