Pre-amp worthwhile? Denon AVR-4311 with B&W 703's

[Leemix]

Thanks so much for your reply Leemix

Sorry some more questions! See below...

3. Main parts of a pre amp is volume control and input selections which are needed in both integrated and AVRs. Modern pre amps often contain DACs also to be able to receive and process digital signals.

4. You need to control the volume and select the right inputs since most dont only use one source. If you get the signal digitally you need a DigitalAnalogueConverter.

Q 3-4. Why is it necessary to control volume of inputs prior to the AVR unit if the digital signal has no 'volume' but is rather a series of 0's and 1's? How can each source input have a 'volume' that needs to be regulated? Does that make sense?

Thanks Leemix for clarifying those points.

There is no need for a pre amp before an AVR since the AVR also includes a pre amp. The volume is controlled (usually) after the signal is converted from digital to analogue but before the signal is sent to the power amplifiers. Each source doesnt have a volume control.
Roughly in av AVR the signal goes:
Input
Processing
DAC
Volume control
Amplifier
Output to speakers


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

Would my Denon-AVR4311 be sufficiently powered to run the B&W 703's. I have another older top of the range Denon amp, would it be worth using this to seperately power my main speakers?

Whether the AVR-4311 CI has enough power for the B&W 703 or not depends on many factors including the following:

- your seating distance.
- your sound pressure level (SPL) requirement, for ref, watching a Star War movie in a cinema during the action scenes will be loud for most people, and the SPL should be about 85 dB average, 105 dB peak.
- the speaker's sensitivity.
- the speaker's impedance and phase angle characteristics.
- the speaker's power handling capability.

B&W 703 specs:

Nominal impedance - 8 Ohm, minimum 3 Ohm
Power handling - 200 W
Sensitivity - 90 dB/2.83V/m

AVR-4311CI power capability:

Audioholics.com did not test the heavier 4311 but they tested the AVR-4310, complete with measurements. I have no doubt the 4311's is as powerful as, if not slightly more, than the 4310.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-4310ci/avr-4310ci-measurements-and-analysis

Note the reviewer (Gene)'s comment on its power capability):

The Denon AVR-4310CI proved to be a true powerhouse for its price class....

With the above information, you can find out easily to answer your own question using an online calculator such as the one linked below.

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[PENG]

If we have digital input signals (in theory no noise loss), why is there any need for a pre-amp (assuming you do use phono input)?

That is a great question, the "pre-amp" is needed mostly for volume control and buffering the signal for the power amp. For example, if you connect a digital media player such as a CD player (unless it is one that has build in volume control) directly via its analog output to a power amp, it would be like connecting it to an integrated amp (preamp+power amp in one box), with the volume dial to maximum.

By the way, you have asked different questions in multiple posts. If you want every single questions to be addressed, you may want to post a new one that includes all of your questions that have not been responded to.

 

[uoaou]

Whether the AVR-4311 CI has enough power for the B&W 703 or not depends on many factors including the following:

- your seating distance.
- your sound pressure level (SPL) requirement, for ref, watching a Star War movie in a cinema during the action scenes will be loud for most people, and the SPL should be about 85 dB average, 105 dB peak.
- the speaker's sensitivity.
- the speaker's impedance and phase angle characteristics.
- the speaker's power handling capability.

B&W 703 specs:

Nominal impedance - 8 Ohm, minimum 3 Ohm
Power handling - 200 W
Sensitivity - 90 dB/2.83V/m

AVR-4311CI power capability:

Audioholics.com did not test the heavier 4311 but they tested the AVR-4310, complete with measurements. I have no doubt the 4311's is as powerful as, if not slightly more, than the 4310.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-4310ci/avr-4310ci-measurements-and-analysis

Note the reviewer (Gene)'s comment on its power capability):


With the above information, you can find out easily to answer your own question using an online calculator such as the one linked below.

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Thanks Peng!

I am learning a lot from you guys and really appreciate all the help. Very kind of you help a noob with basic questions.

My result is 112 dB SPL at listening postion. I guess that means amp is sufficiently powering the speakers. I guess I am not after increased volume but rather considering whether I have optimized setup for sound production quality (tweaking performance without too much extra $$$).

From my listening experience, the speakers can get to a deafening volume without noticeable distortion or background noise.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks Peng!

I am learning a lot from you guys and really appreciate all the help. Very kind of you help a noob with basic questions.

My result is 112 dB SPL at listening postion. I guess that means amp is sufficiently powering the speakers. I guess I am not after increased volume but rather considering whether I have optimized setup for sound production quality (tweaking performance without too much extra $$$).

From my listening experience, the speakers can get to a deafening volume without noticeable distortion or background noise.

Considering that THX level for movies is 85dB average per channel with allowance for 20dB peaks (LFE being 10dB more),sounds like you can do well enough with your amp section in the avr; if you think you need more power you can always add amps via the pre-outs. Especially since you can reach deafening volume without noticeable distortion/noise....you're just ready to enjoy !

One further comment about what comprises an avr is the inclusion of a tuner section and/or internet/app interface; often pre-pros have this as well; also avrs/pre-pros have both audio and video switching capabilities as well as bass management options. An integrated amp is basically a 2ch receiver without a tuner (or internet access/apps) traditionally; some have dacs, some don't. Some integrated amps also have bass management like avrs now, but that's more a recent arrival. It is becoming more common now for an integrated amp to have dacs but don't think all that many 2ch pre-amps do (think they cater more to the analog crowd from what I've seen).

 

[PENG]

My result is 112 dB SPL at listening postion. I guess that means amp is sufficiently powering the speakers. I guess I am not after increased volume but rather considering whether I have optimized setup for sound production quality (tweaking performance without too much extra $$$).

From my listening experience, the speakers can get to a deafening volume without noticeable distortion or background noise.

That means at very loud spl of say 105 dB peak, your AVR will have 10 dB of headroom!! That also means the AVR will be cruising at about 14 W average, or only 1.4 watt if you listen to 95 dB peak, 75 dB average. So you should not have to worry about audible distortion. You should leave the impedance setting at 8 ohms.