JTR Captivator 118? Vs "regular" HSU/SvS subs?

[Landmonster]

Hi guys

So I've been hearing great, almost legendary sounding, things about JTR. I've never highly considered them... mainly due to budget, and size and space constraints. They are highly expensive, large, and finished as if they were for a commercial space.

But I've begun considering the entry level JTR Capivator as a possibility, since it can be refinished. Given that it costs around $1800, it costs between an SVS pb3000 or pb4000.... Or about as much as dual HSUs

How would the JTR Capivator sound vs SVS P 4000? (Or pb000)
How would a single JTR Captivator compare to a dual setup of HSU vtf-15 mk2?

Is JTR in a different league from these types of subs?

Lastly, should a JTR be used in a regular living room, or are they intended for dedicated theaters?


Sorry for the slew of questions

 

[kini]

A single JTR 118 will have a little more peak output from 20hz on up than a pair of colocated HSU VTF15.2s. It's a much more powerful sub. If you can afford one now and another later it's a much better future proof move. JTR offers custom finishes. Not sure if that includes the 118 though.

The SVS PB4000 is more of a lateral move from the HSU, a little more output down low a little less in the mid bass range of the subs. It's a very good sub but you're paying for the looks, "free" shipping and the better warranty.

 

[Landmonster]

Would the JTR have any less distortion, or improvement in sound quality? Or is it simply better at output?

 

[shadyJ]

A single JTR 118 will have a little more peak output from 20hz on up than a pair of colocated HSU VTF15.2s. It's a much more powerful sub. If you can afford one now and another later it's a much better future proof move. JTR offers custom finishes. Not sure if that includes the 118 though.

The SVS PB4000 is more of a lateral move from the HSU, a little more output down low a little less in the mid bass range of the subs. It's a very good sub but you're paying for the looks, "free" shipping and the better warranty.

I don't think that Captivator 118 will have any advantage output advantage over two VTF15h mk2 subs, except maybe above 100 Hz. I know that the Captivator has been redesigned since the one from Ricci's testing, but it would need a very large performance increase to match the output of dual VTF15h MK2s.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sub deciding can be so hard....have I mentioned DIY?

 

[Landmonster]

I don't think that Captivator 118 will have any advantage output advantage over two VTF15h mk2 subs, except maybe above 100 Hz. I know that the Captivator has been redesigned since the one from Ricci's testing, but it would need a very large performance increase to match the output of dual VTF15h MK2s.

What about 2 Captivator 118s as longer term solution? Would that be far superior to dual HSUs?

 

[shadyJ]

What about 2 Captivator 118s as longer term solution? Would that be far superior to dual HSUs?

Yes, that would have a performance advantage over dual VTF15h mk2s. It's hard to say how much since the cap 118 has been redesigned. However, if you wanted to do that, I would think about bringing in a dedicated 20 amp circuit just for the subs in order to make that worth it. That is 2400 RMS watts of amplification. I wouldn't want to share that load on a circuit with other high power draw items like an AVR or a projector, especially if it is only a 15 amp circuit.

 

[Landmonster]

Yes, that would have a performance advantage over dual VTF15h mk2s. It's hard to say how much since the cap 118 has been redesigned. However, if you wanted to do that, I would think about bringing in a dedicated 20 amp circuit just for the subs in order to make that worth it. That is 2400 RMS watts of amplification. I wouldn't want to share that load on a circuit with other high power draw items like an AVR or a projector, especially if it is only a 15 amp circuit.

Good point. It seems at a certain point, we will all be limited by the circuits in our house. . I'll have to look Into what that costs to change

I don't know if I have mentioned it here, but I do not plan to listen to anything at ear damaging levels...If I do, not very often.

I'm more into clean sound, low distortion , heavy punch, and output for short peaks.

Is there any reason to consider JTR under that scenario? Are they going to sound much different than a HSU at say, 70 db?

 

[shadyJ]

Good point. It seems at a certain point, we will all be limited by the circuits in our house. . I'll have to look Into what that costs to change

I don't know if I have mentioned it here, but I do not plan to listen to anything at ear damaging levels...If I do, not very often.

I'm more into clean sound, low distortion , heavy punch, and output for short peaks.

Is there any reason to consider JTR under that scenario? Are they going to sound much different than a HSU at say, 70 db?

The JTR subwoofers won't have any audible advantage over the Hsu subs at regular loudness levels. They will be able to hit peaks better at reference level listening, but that is really loud listening levels, and your front stage speakers with their respective amplification likely wouldn't be able to keep up with that kind of dynamic range anyway. Hell, your speakers would probably be dynamically outmatched by the Hsu subs let alone some JTRs.

 

[shadyJ]

Good point. It seems at a certain point, we will all be limited by the circuits in our house. . I'll have to look Into what that costs to change

I don't know if I have mentioned it here, but I do not plan to listen to anything at ear damaging levels...If I do, not very often.

I'm more into clean sound, low distortion , heavy punch, and output for short peaks.

Is there any reason to consider JTR under that scenario? Are they going to sound much different than a HSU at say, 70 db?

By the way, I just read in another post of yours that you intend to put these subs in a 16'x15' room. Any of these subs are going to hit really hard in a room of that size. If that room is not open to other areas of the house, you might consider sticking with variable tuned subs that can be run in a sealed configuration. That means the Hsu subs, SVS multi-ported subs, Monolith THX subs, and Outlaw X13. That room is bound to get a significant amount of low-end room gain, so you will get lots of deep bass. The ability to run the sub in a sealed mode might come in handy in case the deep bass gets to be too much.

 

[Landmonster]

The JTR subwoofers won't have any audible advantage over the Hsu subs at regular loudness levels. They will be able to hit peaks better at reference level listening, but that is really loud listening levels, and your front stage speakers with their respective amplification likely wouldn't be able to keep up with that kind of dynamic range anyway. Hell, your speakers would probably be dynamically outmatched by the Hsu subs let alone some JTRs.

I guess I'm a little unclear what the advantage of JTR subwoofers are then. Just loudness? Do people listen to stuff at 110 dbs in their homes?

Maybe the HSUs would be fine for my proposed system... And it would be wise to keep things in balance?

I'm not entirely sold on the Polk lsiM line... but it just seems like a good value with respectable/high sound quality, plus great living room aesthetics, especially if I can catch them on sale. Maybe one of the better values for my budget, anyway. I tried klpisch rf7 ii in the past, and I wasn't in love with their sound or black vinyl veneers. They were dynamic though for movies.

In any case....I'd like a sub that I can keep into the future and be happy with, even if I change rooms or speakers

I understand a full JTR speaker setup is probably more awesome, but you're talking $12k+ before subs

 

[Landmonster]

By the way, I just read in another post of yours that you intend to put these subs in a 16'x15' room. Any of these subs are going to hit really hard in a room of that size. If that room is not open to other areas of the house, you might consider sticking with variable tuned subs that can be run in a sealed configuration. That means the Hsu subs, SVS multi-ported subs, Monolith THX subs, and Outlaw X13. That room is bound to get a significant amount of low-end room gain, so you will get lots of deep bass. The ability to run the sub in a sealed mode might come in handy in case the deep bass gets to be too much.

It's a 16 wide x 15 deep room with 10 foot ceilings. Slab foundation, standard Texas construction.

The walls are sheetrock with no sound treatment. Right wall has 3 windows. Left wall has an open bar to kitchen.

 

[shadyJ]

I guess I'm a little unclear what the advantage of JTR subwoofers are then. Just loudness? Do people listen to stuff at 110 dbs in their homes?

Maybe the HSUs would be fine for my proposed system... And it would be wise to keep things in balance?

I'm not entirely sold on the Polk lsiM line... but it just seems like a good value with respectable/high sound quality, plus great living room aesthetics, especially if I can catch them on sale. Maybe one of the better values for my budget, anyway. I tried klpisch rf7 ii in the past, and I wasn't in love with their sound or black vinyl veneers. They were dynamic though for movies.

In any case....I'd like a sub that I can keep into the future and be happy with, even if I change rooms or speakers

I understand a full JTR speaker setup is probably more awesome, but you're talking $12k+ before subs

The advantage of JTR speakers is primarily dynamic range ie., loudness. Some of the larger models have extremely deep tuning frequencies, so they can also dig a lot deeper too, well below human hearing ability.

The Polk LSiM are very good speakers. Make sure you can get the whole front stage set before pulling the trigger though, since availability has become erratic.

It's a 16 wide x 15 deep room with 10 foot ceilings. Slab foundation, standard Texas construction.

The walls are sheetrock with no sound treatment. Right wall has 3 windows. Left wall has an open bar to kitchen.

You will want to do something with the room to damp sound. Bare walls, bare floor, bare ceiling makes for a very reverberant space and that can sound bad. You don't need acoustic treatments in there necessarily, but something that will absorb and diffuse sound, like anything soft, or uneven surfaces like a bookshelf with books, etc. A rug, thick carpeting, soft furniture, fabric decor, can all help a lot.

 

[kini]

I guess I'm a little unclear what the advantage of JTR subwoofers are then. Just loudness? Do people listen to stuff at 110 dbs in their homes?

Maybe the HSUs would be fine for my proposed system... And it would be wise to keep things in balance?

I'm not entirely sold on the Polk lsiM line... but it just seems like a good value with respectable/high sound quality, plus great living room aesthetics, especially if I can catch them on sale. Maybe one of the better values for my budget, anyway. I tried klpisch rf7 ii in the past, and I wasn't in love with their sound or black vinyl veneers. They were dynamic though for movies.

In any case....I'd like a sub that I can keep into the future and be happy with, even if I change rooms or speakers

I understand a full JTR speaker setup is probably more awesome, but you're talking $12k+ before subs

Maybe head over to the JTR sub forum at AVS. Most users that have gone with subs that have 18" drivers claim that the sound is just better at all volume levels, something regarding the bass having "weight" to it that is not present with the smaller driver.

The recent update to the 118 I believe allows it to be more efficient. It's tuned to 19hz and is supposed to have greater output than its predecessor above 20hz.

Again, if you can afford 2 118s down the road then that's what you should do, no second guessing. Of course the Rythmik FV18 with the paper cone digs deeper, down to 14hz yet will still have plenty of output in the upper bass.

 

[lovinthehd]

I guess I'm a little unclear what the advantage of JTR subwoofers are then. Just loudness? Do people listen to stuff at 110 dbs in their homes?

Maybe the HSUs would be fine for my proposed system... And it would be wise to keep things in balance?

I'm not entirely sold on the Polk lsiM line... but it just seems like a good value with respectable/high sound quality, plus great living room aesthetics, especially if I can catch them on sale. Maybe one of the better values for my budget, anyway. I tried klpisch rf7 ii in the past, and I wasn't in love with their sound or black vinyl veneers. They were dynamic though for movies.

In any case....I'd like a sub that I can keep into the future and be happy with, even if I change rooms or speakers

I understand a full JTR speaker setup is probably more awesome, but you're talking $12k+ before subs

Well the JTR 215RT speaker all by itself does rank up there with some gnarly subs (see data-bass.com) Altho that may not give you the advantage of placing your subs other than in L/R speaker positions....

Most of what you see folk talking about are the max capabilities of subs. Running a couple very high capability subs without stretching their legs so to speak may still give you some advantages in terms of lower distortion and less strain on their amps. Goes back to extension and spl goals to an extent, if you're running a dedicated theater at reference levels is one thing, typical living room use often another.

Even tho your subs will "see" the space of your kitchen from a pic I think I remember you're probably still in mid 3000 cuft range?

 

[Landmonster]

I need some kind of definitive differentiator here. Lol

Still confused. JTR, hsu, svs, Rythmik etc.

Whatever I buy I'd like to be as future proof as possible... With regards to sound quality, output, durability, different room sizes in the future etc


One factor not mentioned is resale value. I always prefer to buy stuff that maintains value over time, as I usually take really good care of things

 

[lovinthehd]

I think they're all fine. They're more similar than different, like choosing an avr sort of. Pick one with the features that you want. Future proof in sub is pretty easy as long as you get the best amp possible (and I'd go external myself).

 

[ryanosaur]

One factor not mentioned is resale value. I always prefer to buy stuff that maintains value over time, as I usually take really good care of things

Then you should email Jim Salk about building you Rythmik 18"s in his cabinets. Otherwise, anything you buy will likely "take a hit." If you are worried about room sizes... shop for the best possible sub for covering a >5000'3 room, buy at least two, and you should be good. (That goes back to the Bassaholic room ratings here at AH.)

JTR and Deep Sea offer some nice subs. But unless you're eager to get into the Orbit Shifters, or go all in on $8K Funks... we come back to square one: Shop for the features you want or need to match your system, and know you are in reasonably good hands with these companies!

 

[lovinthehd]

Depends where you live and how long you can wait when selling a sub for a local to come buy it (shipping can be a lot and can complicate the sale but if you keep original packing....). I've never tried to resell a sub, always someplace to put it to use. Many people haven't "heard of" these ID brands except enthusiasts either. Might be easier to sell a Klipsch, Def Tec or Polk sub in some respects.

 

[Landmonster]

Then you should email Jim Salk about building you Rythmik 18"s in his cabinets. Otherwise, anything you buy will likely "take a hit." If you are worried about room sizes... shop for the best possible sub for covering a >5000'3 room, buy at least two, and you should be good. (That goes back to the Bassaholic room ratings here at AH.)

JTR and Deep Sea offer some nice subs. But unless you're eager to get into the Orbit Shifters, or go all in on $8K Funks... we come back to square one: Shop for the features you want or need to match your system, and know you are in reasonably good hands with these companies!

Is Jim Salk the owner of Rythmik, or someone else?

And are you implying the lower end JTR subs have no advantage over a high end Rythmik?

Would 2 of the Rythmik 18s suffice for a 5000 cubic foot area?