Subwoofer Recommendations for a 2,500 cubic foot living room? (Monolith/HSU/SVS... 12" vs 15")

[Landmonster]

Regarding performance, The Hsu subs don't have any real flaws relative to other brands. But, like I said, between the manufacturers discussed here, none of them have any real performance weaknesses. The trade-offs are more in other areas like pricing, feature sets, warranties, shipping costs, etc.
Yes, the Hsu subs have very good distortion characteristics. Not quite as good as the Monolith THX subs, but those are engineered to have extremely low distortion in order to achieve THX certification. The THX subs from Monoprice and Outlaw Audio are some of the lowest distortion subs that are available. The Hsu subs do have distortion so low that it would be inaudible at almost all drive levels. In other words, you would have to crank the Hsu subs to maximum drive levels for distortion to be heard at all, and you would probably never do that. If you want to see the data, look through Audioholics subwoofer reviews for the subs you are interested in comparing. For Hsu, there is the VTF-1 mk3, VTF-2 mk5, ULS-15 mk2. I also have extensive measurements for the VTF15h mk2, ULS-15 mk1, and VTF-3 mk3 that are not published.

How would the line of Svs subs compare with the HSUs and monolith with regards to distortion characteristics?

That's a bit of a bummer, that HSU lags monolith in distortion

 

[ryanosaur]

That's a bit of a bummer, that HSU lags monolith in distortion

Nobody is interested in leading you astray: there are many conversataions I've seen and been a part of where the differences in distortion (be it diffraction or electronics as two examples) are inaudible. I don't even use my subs in THX mode... therefore, I should be hearing audible distortion? No.
If you like the Hsus best, for fit, and appearance, I think you will be more than happy with their performance. Two of our Subwoofer Gurus here have said as much to me. And I am a chronic overthinker
Still, it is your money and system... I fully support you doing your due dilligance!!!

 

[lovinthehd]

How would the line of Svs subs compare with the HSUs and monolith with regards to distortion characteristics?

That's a bit of a bummer, that HSU lags monolith in distortion

Is it audible distortion, tho? Your perception of distortion in bass frequencies is so keen as to pickup very slight differences in percentages of thd?

 

[shadyJ]

How would the line of Svs subs compare with the HSUs and monolith with regards to distortion characteristics?

That's a bit of a bummer, that HSU lags monolith in distortion

SVS' distortion profile is very good, especially in deep bass. There are plenty of reviews with measurements that we have of SVS as well. The Hsus aren't exactly lagging behind Monolith in distortion exactly. It depends on the model, SPL, frequency, etc. But the bottom line is, all of these models have such low distortion that for the most part, you can't hear it. It is inaudible. Here is a comprehensive article that discusses the matter.

 

[bigkrazy155]

@Landmonster fwiw I've been doing similar research and I've shifted my mentality a bit. Instead of worrying about making the right choice amongst these candidates, I've come to believe that you can't really make a wrong choice! So go with price, aesthetics, or features and be confident you haven't gone wrong.

 

[Landmonster]

SVS' distortion profile is very good, especially in deep bass. There are plenty of reviews with measurements that we have of SVS as well. The Hsus aren't exactly lagging behind Monolith in distortion exactly. It depends on the model, SPL, frequency, etc. But the bottom line is, all of these models have such low distortion that for the most part, you can't hear it. It is inaudible. Here is a comprehensive article that discusses the matter.

I suppose we should be comparing apples to apples. It's not really fair to compare the performance of a 12" sub vs a 15" sub, to a 10" sub.

in the 15" range... what do we know about the 15" monoprice sub vs the 15" HSU VTF-15h? Considering that the Monoprice is $1300, vs the $900 HSU... I would imagine the Monoprice is somewhat better, especially since it has 400 more watts. However, my wife hates the black veneer finish on those.... so it's probably irellevant to consider the Monoprices anymore, unless Monoprice is willign to change the finish.


In the ~$1000 per sub range.... is there anything which includes a black satin or gloss finish, that would meet or exceed the performance of the HSU VTF-15 mk2?

I am intrigued by SVS subs... but most of them are far more expensive. If they are that much better, it might be worth saving and acquiring them slowly.

in the ~$2,000 total range, the only real contenders here for around the would be the following options:

1. Dual SB-3000s (gloss black... $1000 each)
2. Single PB-4000 (gloss black... $2000 for 1)
3. Single SB-16 Ultra Ultra (gloss black... $2000 for 1)
4. Dual HSU VTF-15h MK2 (satin black.... $1000 for each)
5. Dual HSU VTF-3 (but I assume the VTF-15h is superior)

Would would impart the greatest overall performance here?

 

[lovinthehd]

Is the SB6000 SVS a version of the SB16?

 

[shadyJ]

I suppose we should be comparing apples to apples. It's not really fair to compare the performance of a 12" sub vs a 15" sub, to a 10" sub.

in the 15" range... what do we know about the 15" monoprice sub vs the 15" HSU VTF-15h? Considering that the Monoprice is $1300, vs the $900 HSU... I would imagine the Monoprice is somewhat better, especially since it has 400 more watts. However, my wife hates the black veneer finish on those.... so it's probably irellevant to consider the Monoprices anymore, unless Monoprice is willign to change the finish.


In the ~$1000 per sub range.... is there anything which includes a black satin or gloss finish, that would meet or exceed the performance of the HSU VTF-15 mk2?

I am intrigued by SVS subs... but most of them are far more expensive. If they are that much better, it might be worth saving and acquiring them slowly.

in the ~$2,000 total range, the only real contenders here for around the would be the following options:

1. Dual PB-3000s (gloss black... $1000 each)
2. Single PB-4000 (gloss black... $2000 for 1)
3. Single SB-6000 Ultra (gloss black... $2000 for 1)
4. Dual HSU VTF-15h MK2 (satin black.... $1000 for each)
5. Dual HSU VTF-3 (but I assume the VTF-15h is superior)

Would would impart the greatest overall performance here?

Regarding the VTF15h mk2 vs the Monolith 15" THX Ultra, the performance difference will mostly be in deep bass. If I remember right, the Monolith subs has something like a 3dB advantage in deep bass. It also has ridiculously low distortion. It's driver can never be pushed out of its comfort zone under any circumstances. The Hsu sub allows the driver to be pushed a bit harder, but it is still a very respectable distortion profile.

The PB-3000s do not come in gloss black, nor do they cost $1k each, so I assume you meant the SB-3000s. In that list, the performance leader is easily going to be dual VTF15h mk2s. Dual SB-3000s will be handicapped by their sealed enclosure. Same thing with the SB-16 Ultra. The PB-4000 is very good, but it is a 13.5" cone sub vs two 15"s in the Hsu subs, so not a fair fight. The VTF-3 mk5 actually does have similar performance to the VTF15h mk2 above 25 Hz, but in deep bass the VTF15h mk2 will have more and cleaner output.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just a quick note... as I've looked at them pretty extensively, my understanding in difference between the 2 Hsu 15" offerings is strictly in the box size and tuning. The VT15Hmk2 is designed to play a little deeper into the infrasonics than the VTF3 (thus a larger box and lower tuning frequency). Other than that, they are supposed to be the same Driver and Amp.

Beyond that, when you buy SVS, consider that built into the price of every product is Free 2-way shipping and an upgrade within a year policy. Every product sold pays for that, where as you still have to pay S&H from Hsu (or pretty much anybody else). SVS policy cuts both ways: good for consumer/bad for consumer. It does raise the per unit cost of a product with an insurance policy, so to speak. As has been pointed out previously, at this class of Sub being discussed, none are losers. Each may have its own strength, but in terms of performance and distortion, etc, it is a fairly level field.

 

[Landmonster]

Is the SB6000 SVS a version of the SB16?

Sorry, the SB-16 Ultra for $2,000. I typed the name wrong..... they used 2000, 3000, 4000 series, then jump to "16".

 

[Landmonster]

The PB-3000s do not come in gloss black, nor do they cost $1k each, so I assume you meant the SB-3000s. In that list, the performance leader is easily going to be dual VTF15h mk2s. Dual SB-3000s will be handicapped by their sealed enclosure. Same thing with the SB-16 Ultra. The PB-4000 is very good, but it is a 13.5" cone sub vs two 15"s in the Hsu subs, so not a fair fight. The VTF-3 mk5 actually does have similar performance to the VTF15h mk2 above 25 Hz, but in deep bass the VTF15h mk2 will have more and cleaner output.

Yes, I meant dual SB-3000s... sorry. I am full of typos

 

[Landmonster]

I guess one other alternative... would be:

#6) Dual PB-4000s ($4,000 total) vs dual HSU-15 VTFs ($2000).

This is not really a fair fight, due to the cost difference.

It would take me a while to save for this, so I would have to run a single PB-4000 for a while. But since, I can't ever go beyond 2 subs in this theater room, I wonder if 2 of those would be a noticable improvement over the HSUs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry, the SB-16 Ultra for $2,000. I typed the name wrong..... they used 2000, 3000, 4000 series, then jump to "16".

They're kind of funky with their model names/numbers....but since the 3000 and 4000 came about, expect the 6000 one of these days...

 

[Landmonster]

Decisions decisions.

I could get dual Monoprice 12" Ultra subs for $1400 shipped.

Dual 15" HSU VTF15s are $2100 shipped.

While the HSU has a more pleasing finish, it's also about 1.3" wider, and 4" deeper, which may look out of place in my living room. It has more output supposedly, but also slightly (maybe inaudible) more distortion.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Decisions decisions.

I could get dual Monoprice 12" Ultra subs for $1400 shipped.

Dual 15" HSU VTF15s are $2100 shipped.

While the HSU has a more pleasing finish, it's also about 1.3" wider, and 4" deeper, which may look out of place in my living room. It has more output supposedly, but also slightly (maybe inaudible) more distortion.

Once they’re in there for awhile you won’t even see them anymore.
AND, keep in mind the distortion figures(you said maybe inaudible) will be inaudible unless your pushing them to the edge, and the monoliths from what I understand can not be made to cry uncle. I feel like you may be getting stuck on that part. Part of the advantage of duals is more headroom. In a typical installation the 2nd sub should give you 3-6db for free. Therefore you’ll set each one at 70-72db when calibrated(bump to taste notwithstanding). That alone should give you some extra peace of mind. I doubt you’ll push any of the aforementioned subs to discomfort of them, or your ears. Just get a pair of “shoes” and call it good.

 

[Landmonster]

Does either one have an advantage for music? It's not all about Home Theater for me

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Does either one have an advantage for music? It's not all about Home Theater for me

No

 

[ryanosaur]

I vote for the hsu’s. Though if Outlaw has a Memorial Day sale on x-13s, I personally, would order those again. But the vtf15hmk2s, yeah, I’d fox wit dem.

 

[Landmonster]

I vote for the hsu’s. Though if Outlaw has a Memorial Day sale on x-13s, I personally, would order those again. But the vtf15hmk2s, yeah, I’d fox wit dem.

That's a sub I hadn't looked up until now.

The X-13 looks pretty beastly... and it's THX Ultra Certified. How would that compare to the HSU 15, or Monoprice 12/15?

The main difference, I suppose, is that is down-firing. Any pros or cons to that engineering choice?

 

[shadyJ]

That's a sub I hadn't looked up until now.

The X-13 looks pretty beastly... and it's THX Ultra Certified. How would that compare to the HSU 15, or Monoprice 12/15?

The main difference, I suppose, is that is down-firing. Any pros or cons to that engineering choice?

Outlaw Audio Ultra-X13 review