Auto eq advice..

[meek]

Hello everyone I need some help. Now I'm no audio expert but I guess you could say I know a little, but not enough to figure out why my system seems lacking in power. Now it's not a dedicated theater room that I have my system in, rather it's set up in my basement livingroom. It's a 2.1 set up consisting of 2 Elac UF5 towers and a VTF15H MK2 sub connected to a Denon x4200w, I've ran audyssey but it has left me with less than satisfying results. The speakers are set to small with a crossover at 100 hz and the lpf for lfe I have set to 80 hz. Now my issue isn't with the bass but with the fact that I have to crank up the MV to nearly refrence level to get good sound when I want to watch a movie or show on cable tv. I don't know if it's the Denon having a hard time pushing power ro my towers or if audyssey is calibrating my system messed up.

Now I just saw a video posted on the audioholics youtube chanel about using REW to set up systems. Is REW something a novice like me could benefit from? I just feel like I could get more from my system than what audyssey auto eq is giving me. I've attached a picture of what my simple set up looks like. If this is in the wrong forum section I sincerely apologize, I'm new here so any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Leemix]

First off leave the LPF for LFE at the default 120hz, there is not many good reasons not to do that. 100hz crossover on those speakers might be nice but try 80 also and see.
Did you only run the audyssey setup once?
Try a few more times to get the hang of it, you might have gotten a bad run, maybe something influenced the measurements at the wrong time.
Which audyssey mode do you have? (Reference/flat)
Do you have dynamic eq or dynamic volume or something like kindness to neighbour enabled?
How does it sound when you turn off audyssey?
Did you increase bass a little (2 to 6dB very common) after?


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[Leemix]

I forgot to write:
It would be helpful with a picture of speaker volumes and maybe distances also if you can.


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[ryanosaur]

The Denon should have no trouble running those ELACs... especially just 2 channels, they claim 4-ohms, that dip to 3.4... but Home-theater-review had some different numbers. Regardless, most mass market gear at this level should work together pretty easily. If there was a problem in the amp stage, it would likely trigger the safeties rather than cut the output.
In general I agree with Leemix's advice:
LPF for LFE should be 120.
I would try your XO at 80... I'm an octave-above kinda guy, myself, but 100 might be good too as the FR is a pretty steep drop starting at 60Hz.

Along with experimenting again with Audyssey:
Reset all levels, distances, eq changes... anything... just to eliminate potential mix up.
Audyssey should nail your distance fairly accurately for the towers, and then your sub should measure about twice as far depending on its on-board DSP. (These are arguably the best things that Aud does, IMO.)

Beyond:
Did you reset your receiver to the 4-ohm setting? If yes, change it back to 8.
Keep in mind that your speakers ARE low on the sensitivity scale. Your receiver should still be able to hit reference level if you choose, but you are going to be pushing it pretty much all the way.

For me, I listen to most music at -15 to -10dB. Sometimes I push it a little higher. The idea of not going past "50%" isn't really a thing but for wives that don't understand.

More info would be nice, though... did this all only happen after you did Audyssey?

 

[meek]

Thanks for the input and quick replies, I've attached pics of what my settings are in my avr. Now originally the trim on the sub was at -10.5 but I went in and bumped it up to -6.0. I've played around a little with audyssey as far as trying calibration multiple times and I know realistically that cable tv audio is always going to be lacking in quality, I have Xfinity and I've heard their audio quality isn't very good. But even some blurays leave me wanting more dynamic range coming from my speakers? Maybe I'm just overthinking things or being paranoid..

 

[ryanosaur]

Have you tape measured the distance from ear to tweet? Do they match up pretty close, distance wise?
How are you connecting cable to your receiver... HDMI? Separate Audio connect?
Nothing in your level settings strikes me as being off in an alarming way... the Subwoofer distance surprises me a bit as I would expect it to be much further after Audyssey allows for the delay in the DSP. (as always, YMMV)

Again, I ask: did this problem only happen after running Aud? Did it sound like this before running Aud?

 

[lovinthehd]

Seems like reasonable settings, altho a bump of 4.5 dB is more than I use but that's a matter of taste. Could be your speakers are a limiting factor on the dynamics...

 

[Leemix]

This just occured to me, im not familiar with your cable provider (live in europe) but is the volume on the cable box itself set to max?
(On my cable box i have an internal volume control and if thats low/not at full i have to crank it up a lot to get sound and that volume control might not be very good for the sound quality)


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[meek]

Audyssey did make things sound better because before I ran audyssey the sound was muffled. As far as the distances from ear to tweet, they are fairly close, about a foot off same with the sub. I have my cable connected to my avr through hdmi oh and what is YMMV? Sorry I'm such a noob lol, i guess what freaked me out was that I had to crank up the MV to -5.0 on a movie I was watching on cable TV and I still could've went up more.. I also noticed when I use a setting called source level in my avr that it helps with tje loudness factor. I attached a pic to show you all what I'm talking about.

 

[Leemix]

Your Mileage May Vary

Did you check if cable box is set to max volume or an AVR will control it setting?


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[lovinthehd]

I haven't even seen a cable box with a volume control. Not that I've seen a lot of them...why would a cable box have a volume control?

Only time I use the input source level thing is for my tt, all my digital sources are fairly close to each other. FWIW you don't really gain anything other than volume matching to other sources....

ps tt is turntable. As far as -5.0 goes that's pretty dang loud! Did you know that for every 3dB shown on the volume scale that represents a power doubling (or halving, depending which direction you go).

 

[Leemix]

I haven't even seen a cable box with a volume control. Not that I've seen a lot of them...why would a cable box have a volume control?

To control the volume with the cable box control instead of or in addition to the tv i suppose, i dont like it but its there on all the 4 generations of boxes ive seen here and from a couple of other cavle tv providers also.



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[ryanosaur]

I haven't seen that in a while, but I am familiar with what you are talking about, Leemix. Good call to check on that. Might require a deep dive into the box settings... if that's even an option. I would think most modern designs have gone beyond that type of design at this point, but some providers still use legacy boxes unless you upgrade. Our experience with Comcast/Xfinity was shortlived: SuckyAF! DirecTV was a significantly better experience for us across the board. Still sent them packing, though, as well.

 

[meek]

Yeah there is no such option on my cable box, I have the newer 4K box that Xfinity offers. I appreciate all the input you guys have provided and honestly I am starting to think that it's Xfinity and their crappy audio compression and quality..

 

[ryanosaur]

Highly possible! Do you have a Blu-Ray player? Do you experience anything similar while streaming?

 

[meek]

Yeah I use my xbox one x for blu ray, netflix and you tube, it doesn't sound like cable tv does it sounds way better but there are some blu rays that leave me wanting more punch from my system, but I think that can be solved by adding a second sub. Lol but unfortunately my budget won't allow it at the moment...

 

[lovinthehd]

If the sq difference is between your sources, that's a whole different thing I'd think.

 

[meek]

Yeah there is definitely a difference between the sources and cable tv being the worst one lol. Now what if in my avr it's set to 4 ohm, how do I manually change it back to 8 ohm setting in the avr?

 

[lovinthehd]

In my a bit older Denon (4520) it's from the remote Setup - Speakers - Manual setup - Impedance

 

[meek]

Hmm.. I have x4200w so I'll check in the settings now to see if I have that option.