Pairing amp to speaker

[Grandzoltar]

I have monitor audio bronze 6’s. They are stated as amp requirements 60-150 watts rms. Would it be okay to pair them with a 200wpc amplifier or is that to much?

 

[Russdawg1]

As long as you are smart with the volume knob, you can pair it with as many watts as possible

 

[lovinthehd]

You could even use one below 60wpc successfully! Speaker wattage ratings don't mean a whole lot, mostly indications of melting points rather than an actual performance spec.

 

[ryanosaur]

You are only going to be able to listen so loud before your ears bleed, you go deaf, and the rest is just Headroom.
I emailed a few times with a VP of Regional Distribution for MA (their North American importer)... His message to me re: the Silver 500s was that I could use a 1000 watt amp, the speakers would sound great... and then I learned I would never actually use that much power. Ever.
In short, headroom isn't a bad thing. Don't be afraid to have enough juice available to push the speakers to, or just past, reference level peaks.
Those Bronze 6s are rated at 90dB, so depending on your room size and distance from, 128w gives you 111dB @ 1m... assuming a large room without benefit of reinforcement (thus a 6dB loss in SPL), you will be at 105dB peak sitting about 6-7 feet away.
For intermittent, real world power usage, those speakers can handle more. If you want to stress test them and run 150w sine wave through them for an hour... you might blow them. (Or if you want to run them Large with a 16hz Pedal Tone from a large organ and you turn the volume up to 0 or +5... you could expect to damage something.)
But short of that, you could buy a 300w RMS per channel amp and you would be fine (as long as you don't abuse it). My 2 cents... YMMV

 

[Grandzoltar]

Ok at typical listening levels the chances of me tapping into the full 200wpc is unlikely. I guess I am obsessing over the numbers too much trying to match the max rms thinking I would have better sound with a dedicated power amp and freeing up headroom on the receiver for 5.1.2 listening. Would a quality 200 wpc amp from adcom Parasound or ati be a worthwhile upgrade especially for 2 ch listening? Or should I use that money towards replace the x3400 for something like a x6500 or sr8012.

 

[PENG]

Ok at typical listening levels the chances of me tapping into the full 200wpc is unlikely. I guess I am obsessing over the numbers too much trying to match the max rms thinking I would have better sound with a dedicated power amp and freeing up headroom on the receiver for 5.1.2 listening. Would a quality 200 wpc amp from adcom Parasound or ati be a worthwhile upgrade especially for 2 ch listening? Or should I use that money towards replace the x3400 for something like a x6500 or sr8012.

If you ask me, I would say if your speakers in your room at your loudest listening level would not peak at higher than 200 W when they dip below 4 ohms, then you will not get audible benefits unless the comparison listening tests are done sighted, or you actually have the so called golden ears.

I have done the following comparison listening.

- AVR-X3400H on it's own.
- AVR-X3400H pre out driving Parasound Halo A21
- Repeat above but using the AVR-X4400H.
- AVR-3805
- NAD C326 BEE
- AVR-3805 preout driving Parasound Halo A21
- AV8801 preout driving Parasound Halo A21
- Cambridge Audio preamp driving Parasound A21

Source:
High resolution PCM and DSD files.

Media player:
Windows 10 laptop
Mojo DAC
Xduoo XD-05 DAC
REW (Room EQ Wizard)

Speakers:
KEF LS50 (mostly) and also R900

In addition to subjective listening, I followed up with plotted FR and THD graphs for each combinations, so I have effectively done both audio and visual.

 

[ryanosaur]

Right now with my BMRs running off Outlaw 2200 Monoblocks, I know I can clear dynamic peaks at reference level SPL. How often do I use that? Probably never. And I don’t necessarily believe that I can hear headroom either: consider how often you see a comment about “those speakers are power hungry,” or “they really open up and sing” when you, say double- or triple-up your max speaker RMS power rating.
To your question, the power difference between AVRs is relatively limited and fairly negligible in terms of how much change in SPL you may achieve (similar to putting a 100w amp on an avr that’s already delivering 90w per channel). That said, in RMS terms, most people agree that my SR6012 would probably output about 50-60w rms per channel when running all 9 channels... in that stress test type scenario. Did I need to buy amps? Not really because in real world listening my rig would probably sustain at the volume I normally listen at. But I also might be bumping up hard against system limitations.
If you don’t need to upgrade your AVR for some feature like IMAX or 4K or HDMI compatibility and your AVR is performing well in all other regards, consider an amp for your front three. Let your AVR drive your other 4 or 6 channels. You won’t hear a difference in sound with the electronics, but you’ll have more power to handle the dynamics if ever you push your rig.

 

[Grandzoltar]

I should hold off on the AVR upgrade till the new hdmi standard. The x3400 has everything I need even eArc too. Replacing it for more power to save having to buy amplifier is to early technology wise. Out of these amps Parasound 23+ Adcom Gfa-555se Ati At1800

 

[everettT]

Try not to let your amp cost more than your speakers

 

[lovinthehd]

I should hold off on the AVR upgrade till the new hdmi standard. The x3400 has everything I need even eArc too. Replacing it for more power to save having to buy amplifier is to early technology wise. Out of these amps Parasound 23+ Adcom Gfa-555se Ati At1800

Keep in mind it takes a doubling of power to gain merely 3dB spl so as was said differences in avrs are relatively small, usually only 1-2 dB at most, and if you go power amp of 200wpc you gain basically only a 3dB advantage over your 3400 (altho probably better low impedance performance). Just what kind of listening levels are you after, at what distance from the speakers?

 

[Grandzoltar]

The amp price to speaker ratio does not make sense to me. Those are reasonably priced amps 1000-1400 is realistic considering the x3400 was 1000 when I got it. For my listening levels and distance I should be fine I guess. I just thought an amp with a toroidal transformer and lower thd % and lower dampening factor might change the perceivable sound not just loudness.

 

[Russdawg1]

The amp price to speaker ratio does not make sense to me. Those are reasonably priced amps 1000-1400 is realistic considering the x3400 was 1000 when I got it. For my listening levels and distance I should be fine I guess. I just thought an amp with a toroidal transformer and lower thd % and lower dampening factor might change the perceivable sound not just loudness.

What they are saying is that spending a bunch on an amp doesn’t make sense because the improvement is tiny at best. Much better allocation of your money would be towards better speakers, a sub, maybe even a really nice dinner to enjoy with your speakers.

The difference between the A23+ and the 2125v2 audibly is almost nothing. Price difference? $900. $900 gets you two 10” Monolith subs. That would be a huge difference in system performance than going from the 2125v2 to the A23+.

 

[ryanosaur]

Most of those performance specs are going to fall into the "inaudible" category. Unless you do happen to have Peng's oft referenced "golden ears." For example, I was considering Crown XLS amps... the 1002 has a 97dB SNR vs the 1502 with a 103dB SNR: most suggested I step up to the 1502 for that reason alone, but then it came out... some of those same people even suggested that difference in SNR might not even be audible.
I chose Outlaw for a couple different reasons: Sale price of $300 ea was a biggy, but also the idea of each speaker having its own power supply, and recommendations from previous owners. I was very enamored with EMO XPA gen-3s, but couldn't find anybody willing to stand up and say how stunning they were, rather the opposite. After the fact, I've since heard some solid recommendations for their amps, but I have no second thoughts with my Outlaws! They perform admirably so far. The big test is coming up, though, when my 3s arrive very soon!
End of the day, @Grandzoltar , its your system, your ducats... I don't think @everettT was necessarily saying don't, but @Russdawg1 kinda hit it... You may be able to save some on amplification if you really want/need... and reinvest elsewhere in the system too, be it woofage, the next AVR upgrade, or whatever.

 

[Grandzoltar]

Thanks Ryan your always informative and deliver it in a very understanding way. You helped me make up my mind.

 

[lovinthehd]

The amp price to speaker ratio does not make sense to me. Those are reasonably priced amps 1000-1400 is realistic considering the x3400 was 1000 when I got it. For my listening levels and distance I should be fine I guess. I just thought an amp with a toroidal transformer and lower thd % and lower dampening factor might change the perceivable sound not just loudness.

It makes sense as most of the sound quality is in your speakers (and your speakers interaction with your room). The electronics don't matter a lot. Toroidal vs EI transformer isn't a sound quality thing. THD in your speakers is far higher than your avr. Damping factor is an overblown spec.

 

[ryanosaur]

Now I'm just curious: what is your plan?

 

[Grandzoltar]

Getting a separate power amp just to get the amount of wattage to match the max rms of the front speakers may not be the most important upgrade. The outlaw monoblocks looked like a cheaper alternative but at 600 watt power consumption per unit I am approaching the max my 15 amp line can Handel. The x3400 bench test on sound and vision for 2 channel actually achieved 123 watts .1% distortion , 5 channel 97.6 watts .1% 7channel 72.7 .1% I am going to wait till Marantz comes out with the successor to the sr 8012 by that time receivers will have new tech that is need for future tech in TVs. My avr isn’t that outdated nor that underpowered. Are these speakers really going to “open up and sing” with max rms wattage.

I am going to do 1 of three things upgrade from my vtf2 mk5 to vtf 15h. Or buy the Sony x1100es when it comes out for sacd and dvd audio. Or by the vizio quantum x 75 inch when released. That tv has amazing specs on paper 50% more than 2018 version and comes in 75inchs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Getting a separate power amp just to get the amount of wattage to match the max rms of the front speakers may not be the most important upgrade. The outlaw monoblocks looked like a cheaper alternative but at 600 watt power consumption per unit I am approaching the max my 15 amp line can Handel. The x3400 bench test on sound and vision for 2 channel actually achieved 123 watts .1% distortion , 5 channel 97.6 watts .1% 7channel 72.7 .1% I am going to wait till Marantz comes out with the successor to the sr 8012 by that time receivers will have new tech that is need for future tech in TVs. My avr isn’t that outdated nor that underpowered. Are these speakers really going to “open up and sing” with max rms wattage.

I am going to do 1 of three things upgrade from my vtf2 mk5 to vtf 15h. Or buy the Sony x1100es when it comes out for sacd and dvd audio. Or by the vizio quantum x 75 inch when released. That tv has amazing specs on paper 50% more than 2018 version and comes in 75inchs.

As far as power consumption goes, you plan to just play everything at full bore every time you turn your system on? A 15A line can be just fine, it's all I have and I have several amps (an avr and three sub amps) running off that...I'm not trying to trip a breaker OTOH.

Instead of upgrading the VTF2 to a larger sub why not add a second VTF2? Why do you need such an expensive player for sacd/dvd?

 

[Verdinut]

As far as power consumption goes, you plan to just play everything at full bore every time you turn your system on? A 15A line can be just fine, it's all I have and I have several amps (an avr and three sub amps) running off that...I'm not trying to trip a breaker OTOH.

Instead of upgrading the VTF2 to a larger sub why not add a second VTF2? Why do you need such an expensive player for sacd/dvd?

I agree with you.

I'm powering my HT system with a single 15 amp circuit. This supplies enough current for my four QSC amps with a total rated power output of about 2500 watts, the AVR which is used as a pre-pro but on which the power amps are still powered (standby), and to top it all, my 50 inch Panasonic plasma set that draws 400 watts and more continuously.

Unless the equipment is in a large room and the listening position is far away from the speakers, I don't see why someone would need more than 1800 watts of available AC power.

 

[highfigh]

The amp price to speaker ratio does not make sense to me. Those are reasonably priced amps 1000-1400 is realistic considering the x3400 was 1000 when I got it. For my listening levels and distance I should be fine I guess. I just thought an amp with a toroidal transformer and lower thd % and lower dampening factor might change the perceivable sound not just loudness.

Depends on how well you can hear small differences. THD isn't much of an issue unless it's in the higher order harmonics and it's a large %- IM is more important.

FWIW- I have a Parasound A23 and it's plenty.