Marantz sr5012

[William Lemmerhirt]

The non hd version's output level is too low, not a good idea if you are going to use it for subwoofer integration unless your power amp gain is higher than the typical 28-29 dB.

Also, in my experience, unless you use with something like Dirac Live kind of REQ software, the REW generated kind of PEQ is not going to out perform Audyssey. I have not compared it with Audyssey XT, but XT32 can do a better job for sure, and I am talking about the HD version vs Audyssey.

@PENG
I’m not going to argue against your personal experience as I know minidsp wasn’t good for you. However in my case, I find it to work very well with its rew generated filters. I wish I had a sweep with only rew/minidsp but all I have is mini/audyssey.

Maybe this week I can do some more.

 

[PENG]

That rings a bell too. I just can’t remember. I guess my brain decided that information was unnecessary after purchase! Lol guess I could look....

Still, then you have very good memory. I only remember because I research that thing to the nth degree before I purchased the 2X 4HD. Unfortunately, despite all the research prior, it didn't work out, so until I am ready to invest on Dirac Live, that little box will just be sitting and waiting...and may turn out to be a $250 decorator.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Still, then you have very good memory. I only remember because I research that thing to the nth degree before I purchased the 2X 4HD. Unfortunately, despite all the research prior, it didn't work out, so until I am ready to invest on Dirac Live, that little box will just be sitting and waiting...and may turn out to be a $250 decorator.

Lol! The little blue light helps it become a hi tech paper weight! Lol

I’m also a fan of Dirac, but my pathway into it will have to wait.

 

[PENG]

@PENG
I’m not going to argue against your personal experience as I know minidsp wasn’t good for you. However in my case, I find it to work very well with its rew generated filters. I wish I had a sweep with only rew/minidsp but all I have is mini/audyssey.

Maybe this week I can do some more.

There is no need to argue anyway as I am not saying the minidsp doesn't or won't work. In fact it definitely worked on its own, just that it didn't work out for me because it really couldn't do/or correct better than XT32. Put it this way, If I used is with REW, it worked but not as well as XT32, but if I used it on top of what XT32 did, then the results were comparable, or marginally better, so it was not worth the extra heat and wires tangling.

You may remember we (@Pogre too..) compared some graphs before and you might have seen some of my graphs that showed with mindsp 2XHD, I could gain perhaps a dB here and there within the 15 to 200 Hz range.

It is hard to compare because we don't have the same speakers in the same room, but I am pretty sure if you use Audyssey XT32 alone, you will get the same or better response as long as you are willing to spend time to find the best XO, assuming your graph is for the mains + sub (s). I am getting +/- 2 to 3 dB variations at the using 1/24 smoothing form 15 to 150 Hz. It could do it to 200 Hz too, but there's an approx. 17 dB room mode dip centered at 165 Hz range that Audyssey, with or without minidsp could do much about, reducing it by half was about all that could be done.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

There is no need to argue anyway as I am not saying the minidsp doesn't or won't work. In fact it definitely worked on its own, just that it didn't work out for me because it really couldn't do/or correct better than XT32. Put it this way, If I used is with REW, it worked but not as well as XT32, but if I used it on top of what XT32 did, then the results were comparable, or marginally better, so it was not worth the extra heat and wires tangling.

You may remember we (@Pogre too..) compared some graphs before and you might have seen some of my graphs that showed with mindsp 2XHD, I could gain perhaps a dB here and there within the 15 to 200 Hz range.

It is hard to compare because we don't have the same speakers in the same room, but I am pretty sure if you use Audyssey XT32 alone, you will get the same or better response as long as you are willing to spend time to find the best XO, assuming your graph is for the mains + sub (s). I am getting +/- 2 to 3 dB variations at the using 1/24 smoothing form 15 to 150 Hz. It could do it to 200 Hz too, but there's an approx. 17 dB room mode dip centered at 165 Hz range that Audyssey, with or without minidsp could do much about, reducing it by half was about all that could be done.

Well fwiw, I could be just stuck in splitting hairs too. It’s easy to focus on academics when in reality some of the FR variations would be inaudible with a great deal of content. I use three subwoofers, and I considered using output 1 split to the front two, and output 2 going to the rear but I don’t have time always to experiment. That means I have to go with what I know works. Despite my enthusiasm for xt32, I think I will like always use the minidsp.

I do recall seeing your graphs, but can’t remember exactly what they looked like.(although I do remember random forum, or user stuff lol).

Also, the graph I just shared was done with the app, and also the 20hz rolloff. Since the update I resent the calibration, but haven’t reswept yet. I expect the little dip around 18hz to be gone and the 16hz bump to be a little bigger as it was before.

 

[lovinthehd]

Output voltage of the various minidsp 2x4s has varied over the various releases. Original was limited to .9V. Balanced was 2.0V then I believe modified up to 4.0V, HD was 4.0V to start....IIRC. Now gonna have to go check my old memory

 

[photographer86]

Very good on all the new info coming in. So I ran AUDYSSEY on the marantz sr5012 for fun. See what results it would come up with. It level match the speakers pretty well except the center channel which put it all the way to -12db. This seems weird however I have not recived the spl meter yet to compair. The rest of the lvls look pretty good about -3 to -4 db on all the other speakers in the system. Which just food for thought are Center is JBL S center with Orange cones, Front R L are JBL s38 version 2 silver cones. SIde surrounds are JBL s38 version 2 silver cones, back surrounds are JBL s26's Orange cones which I really wish I had all of cause I like them better then the 38's. But either way Ill check with a spl meter when i get it. I have the subs volume/gain dial to 12 oclock for when I ran the auto calibration. The sound is def smooth. Interesting from just levels set to 0db all around for speakers levels.

So what if my volume is set to 0db relative level for me to calibrate to 75db with spl meter and I have to set trims to -12 db and it's still putting out higher then 75db to spl meter. Then what do I do?

 

[lovinthehd]

Very good on all the new info coming in. So I ran AUDYSSEY on the marantz sr5012 for fun. See what results it would come up with. It level match the speakers pretty well except the center channel which put it all the way to -12db. This seems weird however I have not recived the spl meter yet to compair. The rest of the lvls look pretty good about -3 to -4 db on all the other speakers in the system. Which just food for thought are Center is JBL S center with Orange cones, Front R L are JBL s38 version 2 silver cones. SIde surrounds are JBL s38 version 2 silver cones, back surrounds are JBL s26's Orange cones which I really wish I had all of cause I like them better then the 38's. But either way Ill check with a spl meter when i get it. I have the subs volume/gain dial to 12 oclock for when I ran the auto calibration. The sound is def smooth. Interesting from just levels set to 0db all around for speakers levels.

So what if my volume is set to 0db relative level for me to calibrate to 75db with spl meter and I have to set trims to -12 db and it's still putting out higher then 75db to spl meter. Then what do I do?

Not sure how you are judging what trim levels are "pretty good" but -12 on the center is somewhat odd and would indicate a huge difference in sensitivity/distance from the other speakers....or perhaps due to placement issues. The JBL S Center I see is 91dB sensitive so not particularly unusual and fairly typical for JBLs IME. With the gain on the sub up to midpoint what was the resultant sub trim level, still in the -3 to -4 range (which would be fine)? What are the various distances from speakers to your listening position?

 

[photographer86]

So yup looking back at lvl's center was -12db trim level, Left right fronts were -4.7 and -4.8 side surrounds were -6.9 and -6.8 which is fine cause center of seating postion is 7 feet roughly from side surrounds. Fronts are about 12 feet away from listening postion. Same for subwoofer. Yes the jbl is way more sensitive then the S38's which are 86db sensitive i think. Would have to look. Gain at 12 oclock sub trim is -5.5. the center channel is mounted just above the tv aimed down a bit toward seating position cause I didn't have room to locate under tv.

 

[lovinthehd]

So yup looking back at lvl's center was -12db trim level, Left right fronts were -4.7 and -4.8 side surrounds were -6.9 and -6.8 which is fine cause center of seating postion is 7 feet roughly from side surrounds. Fronts are about 12 feet away from listening postion. Same for subwoofer. Yes the jbl is way more sensitive then the S38's which are 86db sensitive i think. Would have to look. Gain at 12 oclock sub trim is -5.5. the center channel is mounted just above the tv aimed down a bit toward seating position cause I didn't have room to locate under tv.

Does make me wonder why they're all so much into the negative range even with a difference in sensitivityy....my Audyssey avrs (Denon, Onkyo and afaik Marantz does it the same way) generally have the L/R/C speakers close to 0 then have the rest of the speakers' trims set in relation to them (and the sub level set independently at the beginning of the Audyssey routine).

 

[photographer86]

Well it could be room? I don't know. It's a living room that opens to the kitchen. I do the 8 different calibration spots, but ya it seems odd to me also. Thats why I want to see what SPL is saying. It will be here soon but not soon enough on my vacation time lol. Thanks for all the input on everything. I will play around with it. I guess for fun I could hook up my old pioneer receiver and see what that does.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That’s kinda weird. My S-center is at -3. Iirc, my S-38ii’s were 88db and set around -3 also. S312’s are at -1db @15’ distance and 92db.

Man, I would probably get an app just to see if it’s even remotely close. That’s a huge deficit, and would drive me nuts! I wouldn’t use it all the time, only to see what the heck.

Also, I sold my 38’s to a fellow forum member. I LOVED them. A lot! To me, the imaging was crazy on them. They were my side surrounds. Long story...lol.
Curious what it is about the 26’s you like more. Are yours beech?

 

[photographer86]

Hey William right on with the JBL brand. lol. I love the orange cone versions being they were so well reviewed.

So I have 4 S38's version 2, 2 s26's and s center as you know. The s38's to me sound warm and I think they're a little muddy but just cause of the 8 inch woofer, compare to the 6/1/2 s26's to me they sound a little more accurate and I think they're a little more sensitive like the s center is. If you look at the cross overs between they changed the mF I think it's call between version 1 and 2's but they still sound very lovely. I just feel the 6/1/2 is a little better at keeping up with the beat being a little smaller woofer. That is all though. I am in love with the speakers. So glad somone else has had them. My goal is to have all s26's with orange cones from ebay finds some day. All mine now are in excellent shape. No woofers or tweeters pushed in but its hard to find since they're older speakers and always took a risk buying ebay but have had good luck so far. I also like the s26 cause it just fits a little better in my smaller livingroom. The s38's as you know are little bigger but I still love them. I don't run mine on the side. I do run them vertical with the tweeters on the inside. I just wish the s38's were a little tighter on beat bass like the s26's I did add some poly fill to all them and that helped a lot actually .

PS almost had the s312's from the guy I bought the beach color s38's from but he had already sold them.

I have mine setup as follows L is s38 C is S center R is s38 LS is s38 RS is s38 SB are the s26

I wish JBL still made them today. Though I haven't herd there new studio series. no local dealer.

 

[photographer86]

Okay so for jokes I did the spl meter on my iphone. Not sure how close it is but I will say I did -2.0 for center and +.5 for left and +1.5 right. So that seems about right. Id say Audsssy is having a little trouble with my center speaker. Can wait to get the real spl meter which i know will be more accurate but this tells me for now.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well it could be room? I don't know. It's a living room that opens to the kitchen. I do the 8 different calibration spots, but ya it seems odd to me also. Thats why I want to see what SPL is saying. It will be here soon but not soon enough on my vacation time lol. Thanks for all the input on everything. I will play around with it. I guess for fun I could hook up my old pioneer receiver and see what that does.

What pattern of mic placement did you use? How did you position the mic (with the little cardboard thing, a tripod, mic boom or ?)? Pics of speaker placement?

 

[photographer86]

i used a tripod. Set to ear level at all 8 different postions the marantz walk through. I mad sure that it was ear level each spot. With each move of mic also made sure it was 3 feet from last location accoeding to the insteuction when measuring each spot. Ill draw up my room in a few and figure out how to post pic.

 

[photographer86]

So how do you upload a photo? Or do I need to host it from somewhere?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So how do you upload a photo? Or do I need to host it from somewhere?

I use Tapatalk on my phone. Suuuper easy. Otherwise I think in the reply box just click the “mountain” thing. I think though, Tapatalk allows larger files. I will catch up ASAP. On my way to “End game” now. PUMPED!!!!!
Later! Yes. Love my studios.

 

[photographer86]

Enjoy very much man! No prob. Ill get it figured out.

 

[photographer86]

http://imgur.com/a/12O3PfH

So there is the room. its 18 x 15 foot roughly. I have a kitchen that opens on the right. Couch is about rule of thirds from back wall give or take. The kitchen side down that wall then leads to rest of ranch style house. Hall way and such.