BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
Looking to upgrade my AVR to something a bit more powerful. I’m only pushing 75w right now on a 15year old Onkyo. I don’t need 7 channels, at most I’d do a 5.2 and I listen to music mostly, next is games, last is movies/tv. I just bought a vtf15h and rp280f towers. I’m so new to HT that I had no idea AVRs had hdmi inputs to filter audio through, I’ve been using a headphone to rca jack back from my tv this whole time!

My budget is about $400 and I’m not in any hurry. I read a few threads and seems like the Integra DTR 50.2 might be a good fit. It has response down to 5hz, where the others I looked at stopped at about 20-25hz I think. I see a refurbished one on acc4less for 400.

I skimmed CL and found these as well -
Denon -
X3000 - $200 - 105w / .08thd
3803 - $175 - 110w / .05thd
X3400h - $500 105w / .08thd

Pioneer -
Elite vsx 92 thx - $250 - 130w / .09thd

Integra -
Dtr 50.2 refurbished $400 - 135w / .08thd

Sony -
Str dn1080 - $430 - 165w@6ohm / .09thd

My main goal is to have something musical. Would be really nice to wirelessly stream audio too over WiFi(not BT) but it’s not a deal breaker. I won’t use 4K anytime soon unless Xbox/PS comes out with a 4K console.
Thanks for the help.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
You can score a denon x3500 for 529 right now.
 
BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
You can score a denon x3500 for 529 right now.
I mean, it looks great but what makes it better than the Integra? I don’t need the Atmos and dtsx, or any of the 4K. I apologize if this is a complete amateur question.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I mean, it looks great but what makes it better than the Integra? I don’t need the Atmos and dtsx, or any of the 4K. I apologize if this is a complete amateur question.
Only bringing it up since you mentioned the other Denons, used. I'm not familiar with Integra more than the name. ;) But that x3500 for 529 is a good deal. That's all. :) Beyond that... it's your ducats!
Cheers!
 
BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
Right on good looking out man. I’ve always been a sucker for a good deal.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I like the Yamaha RX-A770 on Amazon (95w/ch). They also have the RX-V683 (90w/ch) on Amazon. These are new. Neither has preouts but Klipsch are very efficient speakers.

The only issue on my 681 in my living room vs my 770 in my bedroom is the Bluetooth and WiFi work a bit better on my 770. I also have a RX-A2060 in my small theater room.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Check out accessories4less.com, they have remanufactured units with warranties you will find something for your budget.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Check out accessories4less.com, they have remanufactured units with warranties you will find something for your budget.
They offer refurbished products from various brands as well as closeouts....
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Looking to upgrade my AVR to something a bit more powerful.
...I’m not in any hurry.
My main goal is to have something musical.
Just wanted to do a couple of "reality checks"!

Point 1:
Unless your other speakers are pretty power hungry, 75 watts is more than ample for the Klipsch towers! That is the beauty of buying an efficient speaker.
So don't expect a little more power to bring any real benefit! (and the fact that you are crossing them to the VTF15h reduces your power needs even further)!

Point 2:
Do not look for your AVR to provide musical or non-musical!
You can argue that some of the differences in the pre-pro EQ controls may be better than others, but I suspect you have been reading some of the reviews where time is spent talking about one receiver being too analytical and another musical, etc. That is BS! Any major company (like Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, Sony etc.) will strive for (and readily accomplish) low levels of distortion. If a receiver imparted a "sound signature" on your music, that would essentially add distortion. I won't argue that it is impossible there might be some minuscule difference in sound between two AVR's that might be barely detectable under ideal conditions, but I will argue that it is a fool's errand to try to find the AVR that will improve the sound of your speakers.

Speakers are the component (aside from the acoustics of your room) that will dictate the sound you experience (assuming your AVR is not driven beyond its limits)!
The Klipsch RP-280f are efficient and very engaging speakers! Enjoy them, because they are "where the rubber meets the road"!

With that said, there is nothing wrong with using your headphone jack to RCA connection as long as you are running only 2 channels (and I'm of the camp that a higher quality 2.1 system is better than a 5.1 system for the same cost - until you are getting into higher dollar systems).
I don't commonly recommend the headphone jack option because I believe you can run into gain structure issues - which will manifest as an annoying hum - it doesn't hurt to try and I assume you would have mentioned it if you were dealing with an offensive noise, so you are good on that count.

But if you do want to "modernize" with HDMI connections and streaming audio, that is fine, just don't expect the other benefits you mentioned (although the excitement of new gear may put you in an emotional state to convince yourself you just made a huge upgrade to your system's sound).

Sorry, this is turning into a bit of a ramble, but these are the things that come up with experience in this hobby!

One thing that may be the most compelling reason to change receivers is whether your 15 year old unit provides bass management! IOW, is there a place with it where you can define the crossover point between your speakers and subwoofer? Traditional stereo receivers and older AVR's send full range signals to both the speakers and the sub, while a newer AVR will allow you to choose a crossover point (like 80Hz) and the speakers will not get (much) signal below that, and the sub will not get (much) signal above that frequency. Essentially, the AVR manages the transition to ensure a smooth hand-off between the subs and speakers.

Of the options you have listed, the 5 year old Denon 3000 at $200 seems like a good deal! Just pay attention to the seller (and his home if that is where you meet) to gauge whether he is the kind of guy who keeps his stuff nice or "rides it hard and puts it up wet"!

HTH!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I mean, it looks great but what makes it better than the Integra? I don’t need the Atmos and dtsx, or any of the 4K. I apologize if this is a complete amateur question.
If you only need more power output and are not keen on the newer lossless movie codecs, video features etc., then the Integra is better, assuming it is in top condition (the 50.2 is quite old).
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The power among avrs is within a small range, even doubling to 150 wpc will only gain you 3dB and with your speakers being relatively high sensitivity do you really need more power? If you need features then shop for an avr and get one with pre-outs so you have amplification choices down the line. Some tvs only offer stereo output, so hard to know if you're losing much with your analog connection vs a digital one (a lossy digital one at that).
 
BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
Wow thank you for the detailed reply KEW! That’s good to hear, no pun intended. No, my receiver definitely does not allow me to use xover points. I’m considering buying refurbished for accessories4less, are they reliable? I’m liking the x2400h, decent price point and has the streaming features I want, but I can’t tell if it has a settings for xover points. Care to share your opinion?
 
BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
The power among avrs is within a small range, even doubling to 150 wpc will only gain you 3dB and with your speakers being relatively high sensitivity do you really need more power? If you need features then shop for an avr and get one with pre-outs so you have amplification choices down the line. Some tvs only offer stereo output, so hard to know if you're losing much with your analog connection vs a digital one (a lossy digital one at that).
What is a lossy digital connection?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What is a lossy digital connection?
Current ARC (HDMI) is only lossless, and virtually same audio available via optical/coax. In the future there will be ARC that can handle lossless but not quite there yet....lossy digital formats are Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital +, and DTS (lossless would be DTS HDMA or Dolby TrueHD).
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Wow thank you for the detailed reply KEW! That’s good to hear, no pun intended. No, my receiver definitely does not allow me to use xover points. I’m considering buying refurbished for accessories4less, are they reliable? I’m liking the x2400h, decent price point and has the streaming features I want, but I can’t tell if it has a settings for xover points. Care to share your opinion?
The 2400 has good bass management and offers a variety of crossover points for each speaker channel. See page 189 of the manual for details. This avr does not have pre-outs other than for subwoofers, tho (the Denon 3xxx series is where they start offering pre-outs).
 
R

Roy Heape

Enthusiast
You have already been given better advice than what I could give you on what to buy. KEW is spot on with his. Last September I bought a 70" 4K TV for my man cave/shop to watch football on. For sound I ran it through an old school 2 channel 100 watt receiver that I played music over, sometimes to 4 speakers. After continuously complaining and looking for the best $400 AVR my family gave me an entry level Sony 7.2 , 90 watt for Christmas. I run it at 5.1 for TV and 2.1 or 4.1 for music. I have had a blast with all the speaker controls and HDMI connections. I have plans for the 2 channels not in use, height, ATMOS? Plan for the future a little, get a 7.xx instead of a 5.xx. Almost the same money. You may want 4K, 2 zones, ATMOS in a couple years. You said you are not in hurry, let it come to you. The big box stores and internet retailers come out with their deals on Sundays, keep checking and you'll get a deal. ACC4less always have some good deals. Good luck to ya.
 
BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
Shoot I might pick up that 2400 then. I see the 3400 on that site too for $490, but I don’t think I need the Preouts or extra hdmi out. Thanks for all the info.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Shoot I might pick up that 2400 then. I see the 3400 on that site too for $490, but I don’t think I need the Preouts or extra hdmi out. Thanks for all the info.
Picked up my Yamaha 7790 over two years ago 299.00 plus the 9.99 for shipping. Still going strong performance has been great. Love the 4K processing. It's going for 249.00 with a years warranty. 95 x 2 into 8 Ohms if you don't need Atmos or DTS-X. It's a nice lil AVR. Oh it has pre-amp outs.
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Wow thank you for the detailed reply KEW! That’s good to hear, no pun intended. No, my receiver definitely does not allow me to use xover points. I’m considering buying refurbished for accessories4less, are they reliable? I’m liking the x2400h, decent price point and has the streaming features I want, but I can’t tell if it has a settings for xover points. Care to share your opinion?
I assume you are talking $320? That is a good option. My experiences with A4L have been nothing short of stellar! I have read rare accounts of people getting a defective unit, but that is on the manufacturer. A4L has always taken care of those instances in a fair and professional manner.
I have bought over a dozen items from them and most could have easily passed as new, the ones that did not were not anything that you would notice from over 3 feet away (for example, something like a shiny rub spot where one of the feet from another unit had sat on top of it). I have no problem with that type of blemish because it is the kind of thing I am liable to do with my own gear. Fortunately, I have never received (or read about someone else getting) an item with significant damage (like, say a unit that had been dropped on one of the rear corners). All functioned perfectly and I consider the savings from buying through A4L as free money!
 
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BayAreaRider

BayAreaRider

Junior Audioholic
Awesome thanks for that info, I did end up purchasing that unit. Should be here beginning of next week. Excited to upgrade.
 

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