Outlaw Problems?

[JackHart2019]

Has anyone else had any problems with Outlaw Audio products or service recently? I have a 975 that is still under warranty and Outlaw is refusing to even respond to me about it. I've never seen this kind of behavior out of an electronics company. Are they going out of business?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You've called them on the phone and they didn't answer?

Emailed them and they didn't answer?

That is alarming.

 

[JackHart2019]

Outlaw these days will only do tech support via an online ticketing system that they control. They have denied me access to that. Their email doesn't go to an email account, it redirects to this ticketing system. They do not answer on the sales line (but they know my phone number) it goes straight to voice mail. They have not returned my calls. They have Facebook and Twitter accounts but they will not respond to me on those sites either. Neither myself or my partner have been able to speak to anyone at Outlaw since their tech support manager denied me service last Thursday. They do occasionally send a "no reply" email asking me to answer questions that I can not respond to because they will not respond to me. It is my opinion that they intend to simply stonewall this until the warranty expires. I find it shocking, honestly.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'd be scared buying anything from Outlaw if this continues.

 

[JackHart2019]

I'd be scared buying anything from Outlaw if this continues.

I've had the 975 for over 3 years now, they were great at the start and I'd had no technical issues until right around Christmas. They worked with me over the phone, seemed to recognize the issue pretty quickly and had me ship in to them for repair. It hasn't worked correctly since I received it back. Their new ticketing system is the worst. You basically have to quit you job & stay near your system in the hope that someone will respond. They've just been awful. After my partner posted a negative review on Google they reached out to us and offered to resume troubleshooting IF we'd agree to take the negative review off of Google AND threatend to sue us if we didn't. My partner eventually took the review down, but they still refuse to serve the terms of the warranty. It's a 500 dollar preamp & if I have to take the loss & pay someone else to fix it, so be it, but damn, if I had purchased one of their 5 thousand dollar amps, I'd hate to think they'd act this way. I'll never do business with them again, obviously.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

This is interesting. Right now I have a 'want list' for possible audio component purchases in the future. I think I'll take the RR2160 receiver off my list. Sad.

 

[Phase 2]

They actually said they would sue? Wow!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you heard Outlaw doing this to anyone else?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I haven't read much into reliability of Outlaw since most of the time I'm thinking about the ATI-made amps they sell, which are extremely reliable since ATI make them.

 

[JackHart2019]

They actually said they would sue? Wow!

Their managing partner sent me an email threatening to sue over the review. Yes he did. I kept it, obviously. Along with all the other exchanges I've had with them on line.

Everything they sell they sell online. Their entire business model is predicated on having folks try their stuff at home and send it back if they don't like it. Why would they act this way? Even if it is only a 500 dollar preamp? It just makes no sense to me.

 

[JackHart2019]

Have you heard Outlaw doing this to anyone else?

No. Which is why I started this thread. Seems like they've been in a defensive crouch since I first contacted them after getting it back. I was curious if maybe something larger than my having pissed off their tech manager was in play.
.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They actually said they would sue? Wow!

Freedom of speech?

Outlaw monoblocks?

 

[Phase 2]

You do know you can report them to your State that you live in. An implied warranty, each State has laws that protect consumers. It's just how far you want to take it.

 

[JackHart2019]

You do know you can report them to your State that you live in. An implied warranty, each State has laws that protect consumers. It's just how far you want to take it.

I've heard I can report them in their State as well. At this point I'm not sure what I'm doing going forward. But they pissed me off when all they had to do was fix it.

For now I'm just curious about the state of affairs over there. Not sure why a going concern would want this kind of word of mouth getting around. It's not like there is this enormous market for obscure audio visual stereo components. I'm brand spanking new to this site, but clearly, folks here pay attention to what goes on in this small world of high end (not my 975 granted, but still), equipment. I'm only 52, if they'd have been as awesome as say Emotiva has been, I'd probably have upgraded to something more expensive at the conclusion of the warranty period.

Right now I'd like the hurl the damn thing out the window.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But they pissed me off when all they had to do was fix it.

Maybe they can't fix it. I've personally seen cases where these AVR/AVP cannot be fixed. If they admit that, would they have to give you a new one? I don't think they want to give you a new one.

As M Code, Phase 2, and others have said, many of these AVR/AVP's are made to be used and then discarded, not fixed and be reused.

 

[JackHart2019]

Maybe they can't fix it. I've personally seen cases where these AVR/AVP cannot be fixed. If they admit that, would they have to give you a new one? I don't think they want to give you a new one.

As M Code, Phase 2, and others have said, many of these AVR/AVP's are made to be used and then discarded, not fixed and be reused.

Ah, see, if only I'd known BEFORE I bought the damn thing. Oh well. I also suspect it can't be fixed, that's probably why they were jerking me around on the troubleshooting & they accused me from like the first day of angling for a refund. Which surprised me, it's 3 years old, never occurred to me to ask for my money back.

Under the warranty, I do believe they would have been obligated to replace it or refund me if it could not be fixed. The funny thing to me is that they have these things made in China. They may sell it for 500 bucks, but I sincerely doubt that their costs are even half of that. So just replacing it would have been cheaper than a refund for them.

Then again, if they'd been honest and said they couldn't fix it, I probably would have wanted the refund, not a replacement that has the same parts.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Hmmm... I have a 975 that is still functioning as well as it ever did. Mine was a very early sample, and I had issues with low pre-out output level that went unresolved. (I finally got more sensitive speakers, and that sufficiently mitigated the problem.) I was thinking about a 976 as a 4K-capable replacement, but that's not going to happen if Outlaw sticks to the service policies you've described. Bad service = no sale.

 

[JackHart2019]

Hmmm... I have a 975 that is still functioning as well as it ever did. Mine was a very early sample, and I had issues with low pre-out output level that went unresolved. (I finally got more sensitive speakers, and that sufficiently mitigated the problem.) I was thinking about a 976 as a 4K-capable replacement, but that's not going to happen if Outlaw sticks to the service policies you've described. Bad service = no sale.

I'm glad you've not had any issues with your 975. Outlaw's new tech support ticketing system is moronic & an enormous time suck. I complained about it almost from the start. Who knows? Maybe that's what set them off. But in my consumer experience it's never a good thing when the only way you can reach a company is on it's sales line. Shutting everything else down so it all has to flow through that bottle necked ticketing bs suggests to me that Outlaw isn't that interested in after the sell support. At least not on their "budget" priced products.

I'll spend a lot more time on resources like this forum before my next purchase. Reviews are nice, but how a business acts after the sale is what consumers need to know.

 

[Phase 2]

You would think they could have offered a replacement unit.

 

[M Code]

The challenge that Outlaw faces is trying to keep up with the competition in terms of performance, quality, technology... Essentially not having their own factory they depend upon certain ODM factories to build their products, and now especially the later audio/video products are evolving with newer protocols for immersive surround formats, HDMI, HDCP and their primary factory in China is having difficulties keeping up... The bottom line is that Outlaw as an independent audio brand does not generate enough unit sales to cover the significant R&D, tooling/development costs..
I know alot about this situation but I will not expand the discussion knowing the factory well & Outlaw principals I will not throw more fuel on the fire as IMHO... I like/admire Outlaw as a brand and but to succeed in the long term they have a very steep challenge ahead..

Just my $0.02...