Amp advice confusion

[ryanosaur]

I would disregard those amps as it seems to apply in this case with 7-9 W to tubes. That will start clipping and distorting with not much dynamic material unless you have a very sensitive speaker, close to 100 dB.

Not recommending them... just using it as an example. From my post 15:

I’m not suggesting that First Watt is the direction for you to go, though if interested you should research them, rather it is the perfect illustration that I needed to convince me of what 1w is capable of. That in auditioning this guy’s speakers, I probably never turned it up to the full 85db of the speakers sensitivity.

Though I was impressed with this guys set-up, its not for everyone. And an amp like that is specialized. Like you said, it's easy to hit the ceiling with that and get some good distortion/clipping. Though if you had some seriously sensitive speakers that were true at 98dB, that amp could easily clear 105dB dynamic peaks. Regardless, no need to listen that loud.

 

[GrimSurfer]

ryanosaur: Cool, hence why I see so many state that more of your money should go into speakers vs. the electronics. I wish I would have known that before I bought the polks. I would have done more research in that direction. But, they're here with me now and I do enjoy them. Someday I will probably trade them out.
First Watt: very interesting, everything is 25W or less. This is something to study and contemplate.

Remind the power amp crowd about this!

Those folks, and the knuckleheads who don't have a clue about how amps and speakers work, continue to give product recommendations that place quantity (watts) over quality (overhead, linearity, low SNR, low distortion).

I did some calculations for a guy the other day indicating that he could sustain 90dB spl at 9 feet, with over 3 dB of overhead, through average sensitivity speakers with less than 60W RMS before clipping. I provided all of the links to the online calculators so he could see for himself.

90 dB sustained is huge. But it can only be realistically achieved using a very stable amp... and most of the consumer grade Best Buy stuff is utter $hit. I don't care how little most of it costs... it's a waste of money. Therefore, it offers zero value in my mind.

Now you don't necessarily need anything from Pass either. Some of the stuff is electronic porn. Other stuff doesn't spec or measure well. Besides, you don't need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get superb sound.

@ryanosaur has given you some very sound advice in his posts. Better than anyone who starts their posts with a specific product suggestion. Those kinds of people aren't worth listening to unless you're preparing for disappointment.

 

[markw]

OP, since you've posted several threads on several forums on this same subject and have gotten the same answers in all, it's obvious you don't want to hear answers from people with years of experience in this hobby. You want confirmation of what you want to believe.

So, with our blessings, go out and buy the biggest, baddest power amp you can find. You won't feel secure unless you do. I'm sure you'll be satisfied with your purchase.

 

[JerryLove]

Those folks, and the knuckleheads who don't have a clue about how amps and speakers work, continue to give product recommendations that place quantity (watts) over quality (overhead, linearity, low SNR, low distortion).

That's vague.

Define "overhead", quantify the correct amount of it, and support.
Give numbers for "good linearity".
Give a number for "low SNR"
Give numbers for acceptable distortion.

And please support why these numbers, and not some other number, are the right ones.

90 dB sustained is huge. But it can only be realistically achieved using a very stable amp... and most of the consumer grade Best Buy stuff is utter $hit. I don't care how little most of it costs... it's a waste of money. Therefore, it offers zero value in my mind.

Meh. I can sustain that off my AVR. For me, that's about 1w of current.

Now you don't necessarily need anything from Pass either. Some of the stuff is electronic porn. Other stuff doesn't spec or measure well. Besides, you don't need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get superb sound.

Oh look. A product recommendation. (BTW: Pass didn't measure particularly differently from other mainstream (and cheaper) amps).

 

[highfigh]

If I saw two amps of relatively equal price and specs, and one had nice big VU meters and the other was just a black box, I would pick the one with the meters. If the VU meter amp was a couple hundred more, I would still pick the one with the meters.

VU meters are for recording, power meters are for amplifiers.

 

[highfigh]

Hello folks, I hope I do not offend here, but recently I was making inquiries about specing out the right gear to match with my Polk rti a9 towers. 90 db at 500 W peak. I have a pioneer elite vsx 33 AVR. I believe it's rated at 110 WPC. So I was looking at getting an amplifier to connect to the pre-outs on the AVR. Some of you may recall this. The advice I was given by a senior audioholic, an overlord, and a few others, was that I did not need so much power (300-500 W) for my amp. Well, I just read a post from the same audioholic to a new member that is confusing me, so I seek your wisdom. I quote: "the amp/AVR you eventually buy should at least meet or exceed the maximum power handling of the speakers. " I interpret this to mean that consideration can and should indeed include amps in the 500 W or more range. Also it was advised to calculate the desired SPL at the listening position, so I used the SPL calculator provided by an overlord to get 85 db at 11.5 ft using my speaker specs. 85db is still louder at my listening position than I would normally use most of the time. SPL calculation shows that comes to only 1 Watt. Mind...blown... I know that when I measure 78 db at my chair it's freakin' loud, and I find it hard to believe my AVR is pushing only 1 watt. I'm really not trying to get the answers I want to hear, and I do apologize for beating a dead horse. I had actually felt quite relieved that I could save hundred of dollars by getting a lower powered amp and use that money for more audio toys. I felt the issue was resolved. I do greatly appreciate all the advice given thus far, but now...I'm perplexed. Please guys, clarify.

An amplifier will only output its maximum if the input voltage is sufficient to cause that, since the amplifier's gain is fixed. If you never approach -0dB/100 on the Denon's volume display, you don't need more power. If you don't reach -20/75 on the display, you don't even need the power the AVR can provide.

Meters have absolutely nothing to do with sound quality. They're lights with needles or a set of LEDs that illuminate. If that's enough to make you buy an amp over one without meters, it's clear that sound quality isn't at the top of your list.

 

[JerryLove]

Meters have absolutely nothing to do with sound quality. They're lights with needles or a set of LEDs that illuminate. If that's enough to make you buy an amp over one without meters, it's clear that sound quality isn't at the top of your list.

I do actually like meters.

As someone who came of age in the 80s; I also like graphical bars that rise and fall.

Yea. they have no relationship to sound. I still think they are cool. I'm sad that none of my amps, and only one of my AVRs has either meters or bars.

Maybe I should get one of those old 80s EQs and hook it to the tape monitor just to watch the bars move.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Maybe I should get one of those old 80s EQs and hook it to the tape monitor just to watch the bars move.

Even better, get OmniMic (or the equivalent) and bring it up on a laptop for the RTA display. I'm so curious that I have two phone apps that include RTA displays (and are relatively accurate, surprisingly),Audio Spectrum Analyzer and DBxPro (both on IOS; don't know about Android). Either is better than an amp meter.

 

[R.Elder]

I do actually like meters.

As someone who came of age in the 80s; I also like graphical bars that rise and fall.

Yea. they have no relationship to sound. I still think they are cool. I'm sad that none of my amps, and only one of my AVRs has either meters or bars.

Maybe I should get one of those old 80s EQs and hook it to the tape monitor just to watch the bars move.

We are likely of similar age. I had one of those 14? Band equalizers back in the day. I’d generally leave it flat but just liked the display. It might be in storage somewhere.

 

[JerryLove]

Even better, get OmniMic (or the equivalent) and bring it up on a laptop for the RTA display. I'm so curious that I have two phone apps that include RTA displays (and are relatively accurate, surprisingly),Audio Spectrum Analyzer and DBxPro (both on IOS; don't know about Android). Either is better than an amp meter.

Like I don't already have an omni compression mic and stand...

Not actually sure where I put the stand for that though. Used to use it for testing speakers but it got put somewhere in the last move.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Like I don't already have an omni compression mic and stand...

Not actually sure where I put the stand for that though. Used to use it for testing speakers but it got put somewhere in the last move.

That's one reason why I like the IOS apps too, especially when I'm listening to someone else's system, and I have them play a few test tones to give them a little system tuning insight.

 

[highfigh]

I do actually like meters.

As someone who came of age in the 80s; I also like graphical bars that rise and fall.

Yea. they have no relationship to sound. I still think they are cool. I'm sad that none of my amps, and only one of my AVRs has either meters or bars.

Maybe I should get one of those old 80s EQs and hook it to the tape monitor just to watch the bars move.

I had one of these integrated amps- not for the meters, but for the performance. I also had a tuner like the one in the link- I won't say I didn't like the look, though.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-ST-A7B.html

 

[highfigh]

Even better, get OmniMic (or the equivalent) and bring it up on a laptop for the RTA display. I'm so curious that I have two phone apps that include RTA displays (and are relatively accurate, surprisingly),Audio Spectrum Analyzer and DBxPro (both on IOS; don't know about Android). Either is better than an amp meter.

I use the app from Dynaudio- if the level is too high or low to remain in the middle of the screen, it can be dragged up or down. Also does SPL.

 

[JerryLove]

I had one of these integrated amps- not for the meters, but for the performance. I also had a tuner like the one in the link- I won't say I didn't like the look, though.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-ST-A7B.html

My father had a close relative of that receiver.

 

[highfigh]

My father had a close relative of that receiver.

Tuner- FM only and at 34 pounds, the heaviest one I have ever seen. I still have a Sony STR-5800SD (SD, for Dolby FM) in my garage. It needed a regulator when I found it next to the alley behind my parents' neighbor's house and once that was replaced, it has been working for over 20 years. It was a current model when I started selling audio in Feb, 1978 and I grabbed it as soon as I saw it.

https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--yPs95jqM--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1512265606/bzyr8rfu9ahpzjvghzq0.jpg