Toe in on subs

[NorCalRP]

Knowing bass is omnidirectional, just wondering of anyone has tried it, and what your findings are.

 

[shadyJ]

Uh ... bass IS omnidirectional.

 

[ryanosaur]

What Up NorCalRP!?! Hope you're doin well buddy. Was that last storm a problem where you are? Kinda messy here. Not horrible, though. Some flooding in the Laguna de Santa Rosa got a little crazy. *shrugs

No reason to toe in your subs. In fact, I've heard stories about guys aiming the driver at the walls just to help avoid possibly some unwanted acoustic issues (in afct, that might've been Shady and Steve talking about that!). Mine are down-firing, though, so again, for me, not even an option. If anything, and you want to prove it to yourself, try turning them away from your LP just as an experiment and see what its like! Shouldn't sound any different. And if it sounds better, well, lets hear it for serendipity!

 

[NorCalRP]

Uh ... bass IS omnidirectional.

Yep. I tried to make clear in the first 4 words of my post that I understand that What I'm wondering is if the orientation/angle of the driver will change the location of the peaks and nulls- or if anyone even has an opinion on it. I have 2 subs, but not unlimited location choice, so I'm just trying to do the best I can

 

[GrimSurfer]

The placement will make far more of a difference than the toe. Stay away from symmetrical placement. It rarely works.

 

[NorCalRP]

What Up NorCalRP!?! Hope you're doin well buddy. Was that last storm a problem where you are? Kinda messy here. Not horrible, though. Some flooding in the Laguna de Santa Rosa got a little crazy. *shrugs/QUOTE]
The last storm did bring some problems, but nothing compared to the previous one that dropped a foot of snow in Redding. The live oaks held onto, then the wind blew like hell the next day. Years of drought paved the way for a lot of failures. It looked like the aftermath of a hurricane. Folks were out of power for up to a week. We were up there 7 days a week, 14 hours a day. Mother Nature has been in a pretty bitchy mood this winter!

 

[Audiosaur]

Best way to ID ideal placement is to use REW (or other software) and a good microphone.

I found a 4db difference around 40hz between angling my sub in the corner and orienting it flush along the wall. It doesn't look as good but flush was better.

 

[ryanosaur]

Mother Nature has been in a pretty bitchy mood this winter!

Dude... not just THIS winter.
Anyway, I'm with Grim here. Front walls, corners, and symmetry aren't necessarily friendly. changing direction isn't the big thing, but placement around the room can be. I get that you might not have a lot of places to put them, but it might be worth trying.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Dude... not just THIS winter.
Anyway, I'm with Grim here. Front walls, corners, and symmetry aren't necessarily friendly. changing direction isn't the big thing, but placement around the room can be. I get that you might not have a lot of places to put them, but it might be worth trying.

It's been more like "Mother in Law Nature" for the past 12 months.

 

[ryanosaur]

Grim, were you around the fires down south last season?

 

[GrimSurfer]

Grim, were you around the fires down south last season?

No, I'm on the other side of the country. I was actually planning a two month surf tour of SoCal, which I cancelled. Otherwise, I would have been there and stuck somewhere along the PCH.

Watching guys ride boats and deliver water on their surfboards and SUPs to people on the beach was crazy... but made me wish I was there all the same.

 

[ryanosaur]

No, I'm on the other side of the country. I was actually planning a two month surf tour of SoCal, which I cancelled. Otherwise, I would have been there and stuck somewhere along the PCH.

Watching guys ride boats and deliver water on their surfboards and SUPs to people on the beach was crazy... but made me wish I was there all the same.

my bad... got you confused with another guy... down in rancho cucamongo irrc.

 

[GrimSurfer]

my bad... got you confused with another guy... down in rancho cucamongo irrc.

No problems! I wish I was further south in San Diego ATM... it's been a while since alive had really good Mexican food.

... and the West Coast swell is better ATM (as it is almost always is, compared with the puny stuff on the Atlantic coast).

 

[NorCalRP]

Dude... not just THIS winter.
Anyway, I'm with Grim here. Front walls, corners, and symmetry aren't necessarily friendly. changing direction isn't the big thing, but placement around the room can be. I get that you might not have a lot of places to put them, but it might be worth trying.

I was working in Santa Rosa and Napa when the Russian and Napa rivers flooded in 2017- that was nasty. One night in Sebastopol we saw the wind literally blowing rain upwards.

So... placement. I do have my VTF-3 MK4 middle of the wall closest to my LP. The bass is rad there, but I've got a pretty bad null in the direct middle of the room. I'm trying to spread the love. My PB-1000 is front left. Yes, I know it's a pretty serious mismatch, and tweak the settings on the subs after I run Audyssey (my HSU runs about half volume and my SVS about 80%), but dude- I got the HSU mint for $300.

Given the situation in the room I may very well end up with 4 PC-2000's after selling the two I have now, and pretty much call it a day. My chick would be pissed, and my room is only ~1750 cu ft, but I do like things even. Right now though I'm starting my own company so I gotta direct my cash flow that way.

 

[shadyJ]

Yep. I tried to make clear in the first 4 words of my post that I understand that What I'm wondering is if the orientation/angle of the driver will change the location of the peaks and nulls- or if anyone even has an opinion on it. I have 2 subs, but not unlimited location choice, so I'm just trying to do the best I can

Toe-in is something you do for speakers that have directivity. What you are talking about is simply shifting the point of acoustic emission. That is basically just moving the sub a little bit. Yes, it should change the response, but not by much.

 

[Old Onkyo]

my bad... got you confused with another guy... down in rancho cucamongo irrc.

Me

 

[NorCalRP]

Toe-in is something you do for speakers that have directivity. What you are talking about is simply shifting the point of acoustic emission. That is basically just moving the sub a little bit. Yes, it should change the response, but not by much.

Right on. Appreciate the feedback. I've now got my mind on possibly putting together some DIY cylinder subs, but honestly wonder if it's really worth it- if I would save enough to justify the time. Making 4 at once would be more time efficient I guess

 

[GrimSurfer]

What would you make them out of, concrete casting tubes?

 

[NorCalRP]

What would you make them out of, concrete casting tubes?

Yep. I haven't looked into it in depth, but if I could be into it for a grand or less it seems pretty enticing. I know I could sell my current subs for 600-700, so total for materials couldn't exceed 1600-1700. I'm kind of just spitballing at this point.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I've thought about making my own sealed sub cabinets. I have all the tools and there aren't many secrets on making well braced and non resonant (to a degree) cabinets.

Cabinets are where the real costs are incurred (or cut) by manufacturers. My time is free and I'm pretty confident my skills are at least up to third world standards (which is where most cabinets are made).