Easy Guide to Subwoofer Placement: Finding the Optimal Location for Best Sound

[ryanosaur]

NO! You need to know the total summed output, at all listening positions, of any woofer producing an LFE channel or tower speaker run full range.

Just so I can learn more, please... For the crawl, to find good potential spots to put subs, I had the understanding that you do it with one sub placed where you sit, right? If everything else is running, you can't hear what the bass sounds like in the potential home you are looking for. Granted, the crawl is crude, but I found it at least to be a good start without having a mic and rew.
Please advise!

 

[TheWarrior]

Just so I can learn more, please... For the crawl, to find good potential spots to put subs, I had the understanding that you do it with one sub placed where you sit, right? If everything else is running, you can't hear what the bass sounds like in the potential home you are looking for. Granted, the crawl is crude, but I found it at least to be a good start without having a mic and rew.
Please advise!

It is the only option if you cannot take measurements!

Unless you are fortunate enough to have a dedicated space for a custom HT, the arrangement/purpose of the room usually dictates the available subwoofer locations.

Due to the wavelengths of bass frequencies (1131 fps / 20 hz = 56.5 ft), having a subwoofer close by is not necessarily beneficial. One subwoofer may satisfy one listener with most of the bass, but that sound is not likely to be consistent as you move across the seats of the couch.

The parallel boundaries of your room cause the wavelengths to reflect back and forth, increasing in frequency with each bounce. This induces what are known as standing waves, which creates high and low pressure areas around the room. It is because of this, that you lose amplitude of some sounds as you move around the room.

You can download basic SPL meters for smart phones. With that, and the test signal of your Receiver/Preamp, you can calibrate all of your speaker channels (80 dB is a good choice). With the subwoofer amp gain at 50%, you can rely on the preamp gain to help reach 80 dB for all channels.

Hope that helps!

 

[ryanosaur]

@MLadia
It seems warrior and I are in fact, in agreement, that given limitations, the crawl would be performed as described. If you choose to delve further, the next step would be a calibrated testing mic like the umic from mdsp, and room eq wizard. If you choose to go that path, it will also pay to study up on some of the multi-sub placement practices. I like the Geddes technique myself, but as discussed in other threads, they all generally have merit and work.

 

[ryanosaur]

@MLadia
It seems warrior and I are in fact, in agreement, that given limitations, the crawl would be performed as described. If you choose to delve further, the next step would be a calibrated testing mic like the umic from mdsp, and room eq wizard. If you choose to go that path, it will also pay to study up on some of the multi-sub placement practices. I like the Geddes technique myself, but as discussed in other threads, they all generally have merit and work.

Now that I'm back home, wanted to add one more thought:
Warrior is correct in what he says. Most of the time, we are playing a balancing act, though. I don't have a mic or REW yet either. I have to rely on my ears to help me make my room sound better. One side of my room, when I look at my Audyssey measurements is a bit of a mess with diffraction: I have a window and a standing drafting table on that side! Regardless, these are my takeaways from my reading and experiencing sub-woofer placement without measurement tools:
First: turn Audyssey OFF!
Disconnect/turn off everything else but the Sub you are putting in your LP.

• You don't have to put the sub in your seat, but you need to put it as close as possible... so move some furniture if you need too. Or put it in your seat... (mine is a 100#+ down-firing beast. I just moved my chair away).
• I already told you to be patient. Keep your Mind and Ears open! Listen along a wall first, and move into a corner. This helped me out when listening. Corners will amplify bass (the premise behind corner loading). The most important thing is that you learn to hear the subtle differences! And they can be subtle. (Except for when they aren't, but those tend to be extremes.)
• If your goal is good bass and you can rearrange furniture: Do it! Your chest or table or lamp can move a few feet if its worth it to you. (Keep your mind open)
• The best place for subs also is not necessarily the front wall or corners. (Keep your mind open.)
• Depending on the size of your room, volumetrically, you may need to consider a near-field placement (behind the couch, as an end table, etc. (Keep your mind open.)

Remember, you are listening to find a spot where the bass sounds Good! When you find it, mark it, and look for the next, and maybe even a third just to have the option. When you get everything set back up, you will need to re-run Audyssey. Keep you new Distance and level measurement, but experiment with turning Aud. on and off like I suggested before. Also with the App, you can move the range that Audyssey adjusts for below the Schroeder Frequency (usually between 100-200Hz) of your room and have it just manage your LFs, leaving your higher frequencies untouched. Also experiment with Turning your Dynamic EQ off, as well as that mid-range adjustment, or whatever they call it (responsible for the 2KHz dip in your curves).
Regarding that last thing: my room is kind of lively, so I turned Aud. OFF, but went into my Graphic-EQ in the AVR, and built a slightly less impactful version of that 2K dip which really helped keep my audio clean, but not dull.

Hope some of this is useful to you!!!

Cheers!

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Now that I'm back home, wanted to add one more thought:
Warrior is correct in what he says. Most of the time, we are playing a balancing act, though. I don't have a mic or REW yet either. I have to rely on my ears to help me make my room sound better. One side of my room, when I look at my Audyssey measurements is a bit of a mess with diffraction: I have a window and a standing drafting table on that side! Regardless, these are my takeaways from my reading and experiencing sub-woofer placement without measurement tools:
First: turn Audyssey OFF!
Disconnect/turn off everything else but the Sub you are putting in your LP.

• You don't have to put the sub in your seat, but you need to put it as close as possible... so move some furniture if you need too. Or put it in your seat... (mine is a 100#+ down-firing beast. I just moved my chair away).
• I already told you to be patient. Keep your Mind and Ears open! Listen along a wall first, and move into a corner. This helped me out when listening. Corners will amplify bass (the premise behind corner loading). The most important thing is that you learn to hear the subtle differences! And they can be subtle. (Except for when they aren't, but those tend to be extremes.)
• If your goal is good bass and you can rearrange furniture: Do it! Your chest or table or lamp can move a few feet if its worth it to you. (Keep your mind open)
• The best place for subs also is not necessarily the front wall or corners. (Keep your mind open.)
• Depending on the size of your room, volumetrically, you may need to consider a near-field placement (behind the couch, as an end table, etc. (Keep your mind open.)

Remember, you are listening to find a spot where the bass sounds Good! When you find it, mark it, and look for the next, and maybe even a third just to have the option. When you get everything set back up, you will need to re-run Audyssey. Keep you new Distance and level measurement, but experiment with turning Aud. on and off like I suggested before. Also with the App, you can move the range that Audyssey adjusts for below the Schroeder Frequency (usually between 100-200Hz) of your room and have it just manage your LFs, leaving your higher frequencies untouched. Also experiment with Turning your Dynamic EQ off, as well as that mid-range adjustment, or whatever they call it (responsible for the 2KHz dip in your curves).
Regarding that last thing: my room is kind of lively, so I turned Aud. OFF, but went into my Graphic-EQ in the AVR, and built a slightly less impactful version of that 2K dip which really helped keep my audio clean, but not dull.

Hope some of this is useful to you!!!

Cheers!

Put it in the seat!

Man, this site only allows some really tiny file sizes to be uploaded.

 

[MLadia]

Put it in the seat!
View attachment 28700

But my Dayton Sub 1200 is downward-firing. How do I position it? Speaker up? Toward the TV?

 

[ryanosaur]

if you put it in the seat, just put it on its side. Won't hurt anything.
Mine fire down too... I just kept it on the floor.

 

[ryanosaur]

Put it in the seat!
View attachment 28700

Man, this site only allows some really tiny file sizes to be uploaded.

Awww... that little guy is so cute!

 

[ryanosaur]

#put-that-in-a-seat

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Awww... that little guy is so cute!

I’ll have real subs when I grow up lol. Eyeing the PB3000s. Just trying to decide if I “need” those or Ultra LCRs first.

 

[ryanosaur]

I’ll have real subs when I grow up lol. Eyeing the PB3000s. Just trying to decide if I “need” those or Ultra LCRs first.

Keep it simple. The answer is yes. Always YES.
Cheers!

 

[TheWarrior]

Now that I'm back home, wanted to add one more thought:
Warrior is correct in what he says. Most of the time, we are playing a balancing act, though. I don't have a mic or REW yet either. I have to rely on my ears to help me make my room sound better. One side of my room, when I look at my Audyssey measurements is a bit of a mess with diffraction: I have a window and a standing drafting table on that side! Regardless, these are my takeaways from my reading and experiencing sub-woofer placement without measurement tools:
First: turn Audyssey OFF!
Disconnect/turn off everything else but the Sub you are putting in your LP.

• You don't have to put the sub in your seat, but you need to put it as close as possible... so move some furniture if you need too. Or put it in your seat... (mine is a 100#+ down-firing beast. I just moved my chair away).
• I already told you to be patient. Keep your Mind and Ears open! Listen along a wall first, and move into a corner. This helped me out when listening. Corners will amplify bass (the premise behind corner loading). The most important thing is that you learn to hear the subtle differences! And they can be subtle. (Except for when they aren't, but those tend to be extremes.)
• If your goal is good bass and you can rearrange furniture: Do it! Your chest or table or lamp can move a few feet if its worth it to you. (Keep your mind open)
• The best place for subs also is not necessarily the front wall or corners. (Keep your mind open.)
• Depending on the size of your room, volumetrically, you may need to consider a near-field placement (behind the couch, as an end table, etc. (Keep your mind open.)

Remember, you are listening to find a spot where the bass sounds Good! When you find it, mark it, and look for the next, and maybe even a third just to have the option. When you get everything set back up, you will need to re-run Audyssey. Keep you new Distance and level measurement, but experiment with turning Aud. on and off like I suggested before. Also with the App, you can move the range that Audyssey adjusts for below the Schroeder Frequency (usually between 100-200Hz) of your room and have it just manage your LFs, leaving your higher frequencies untouched. Also experiment with Turning your Dynamic EQ off, as well as that mid-range adjustment, or whatever they call it (responsible for the 2KHz dip in your curves).
Regarding that last thing: my room is kind of lively, so I turned Aud. OFF, but went into my Graphic-EQ in the AVR, and built a slightly less impactful version of that 2K dip which really helped keep my audio clean, but not dull.

Hope some of this is useful to you!!!

Cheers!

Taking measurements requires a bit of an education to even make sense of the results. And the nature of room acoustics means that the trial and error aspect can only be minimized so much.

But you do need to know how loud every single channel in a surround system is playing at every seat. You can buy a meter to feel cool (like I did - just a cheap radioshack LOL) or you can download an app on the phone.

Level matching every channel cannot be done by ear, but it does allow for one of the greatest sound quality improvements in any system, especially if it's never been manually level matched - I too do not use Audyssey as I believe that program in particular is rooted in pseudoscience and is more likely to compromise the sound quality (particularly bass) than help.

 

[MLadia]

Ok I have 2 differing opinions. One to "turn off all other sources. No speakers, no extra subs." And another to leave all sound sources on. Anybody want to break the tie?
Also attached my initial Audyssey Sub curve. I have 2 Dayton Sub1200s currently equally positioned upfront by by 65 inch Samsung. Any other input? Thank you for your responses.

 

[ryanosaur]

Watch other vids online, but the crawl needs to be done with just the sub.

 

[plastico]

I tried this crawl method and I am a believer! My Golden Ear Triton Two's are 12 feet from me and the Paradigm 2100v2 is 5 feet to my left. The bass is coming from the main speakers and I cannot tell if the sub is on! Goodbye bad bass!
Cheers, Doug

 

[audiolove1]

I found this guide quite helpful when setting up my SVS SB-2000

 

[allfred]

I know placement depends largely on the room however was interested to see where large single sub owners have placed / faced their subs to help room consistency?

 

[ryanosaur]

I know placement depends largely on the room however was interested to see where large single sub owners have placed / faced their subs to help room consistency?

I would recommend crawling it out. You can take it a step further by crawling out multiple LP placements to see if any one possible home for the sub will deliver good performance to multiple seats. It may be possible that you have a special room that will allow for this.
Keep in mind that any single sub will be limited in the number of room modes it can excite, and therefore will always be challenged at delivering ‘equalized’ bass across a larger area.

 

[allfred]

I will try that for sure!

 

[joms]

Can you use a sound meter (iphone app or something) instead of listening the bass yourself so that you would really know the result objectively?