Should a power amp be added with High Powered AV Receiver ??

[JerryLove]

Agree.

One way of framing the requirement is:

1. Desired sound pressure (dB)
2. At a given distance (meters... sorry to go metric here)
3. Using "x" number of speakers
4. With a speaker sensitivity of "y" dB/Watt/m
= a certain power rating

Times 1.3 for overhead, changing speakers, etc. (The 1.3 is a WAG it's wise to go slightly over the requirement as watts are cheap and headroom impossible to buy after point of purchase).

Provided this figure doesn't exceed the max power handling of the speakers, you're good to go. If it does, you need new speakers... and have t start the calculations all over again because the speaker sensitivity will have changed

That avoids the problem of shopping for an arbitrary power figure. Not exact by any means, but closer than simply shopping for a big power rating.

That's correct... at 8 ohm.

Double the numbers at 4ohm.

Quadruple at 2ohm.

I'd use a larger multiplier than 1.3; not for nebulous things like "overhead" but for the fact that the math has been done for an idealized 8ohm speaker, not a nominal 8ohm.

The amp does put out more power at lower resistance, but not normally to the same degree as the demand scales.

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Youvare right bro. What i meant to say to ise AM10 along with its base module ofcourse. Since its kind of passive therefore cannot take it off. What i was wondering if one can use speaker terminals and their PRE OUTs at the same time !!!! Most of the manufacturers limit this option as warning "do mot ise speakers on speaker terminals when preout is engaged". I used to have YAMAHA DSP A2 and read this warning in its manual. Plz guide something about it..
Further my previous setup was JBL Northridge Series E.
Front E90
Center EC25
Surround E10
AVR - Harmon Kardon 255
My analysis is that AM10 is good when u dont want to compromise space in ur theater room.. otherwise better options are available... !!

Ah, fair enough.

Hopefully someone can answer the part about using speaker terminals and preouts at the same time. I do t know enough about it to say why it would be a poor idea per the manufacturers, or why it might be fine either way.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Ah, fair enough.

Hopefully someone can answer the part about using speaker terminals and preouts at the same time. I do t know enough about it to say why it would be a poor idea per the manufacturers, or why it might be fine either way.

This is hardly ever a problem in 2 channel integrated amps. I'd be inclined to say the same thing about AVRs unless the manufacturer recommends against it.

Now if they do recommend against it, I'd go digging deeper into the specs because it would imply a serious voltage or current limitation in the design...

 

[BriReeves629]

Ah, fair enough.

Hopefully someone can answer the part about using speaker terminals and preouts at the same time. I do t know enough about it to say why it would be a poor idea per the manufacturers, or why it might be fine either way.

In order to do what you are wanting to do, you would run RCA out from the Zone 2 or Zone 3 Pre-outs then into your 2-channel amp. You would have to have speakers dedicated to this (I believe you said your were). Then when you are listening to music, you switch to Zone 2(3). This is how you would set up speakers in a different room running from the AVR...FYI. I was reading some specs that said the X4400H had a powered output for multi-room, but I believe they are referring to the Heos. I don’t see the output on the back of your AVR.


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[lovinthehd]

Ah, fair enough.

Hopefully someone can answer the part about using speaker terminals and preouts at the same time. I do t know enough about it to say why it would be a poor idea per the manufacturers, or why it might be fine either way.

Most avrs have speaker terminals and preouts live simultaneously, and can be used whatever way you want; whether you want to run two of the same channel with a passive & active speaker (or passives thru an external amp) is another matter due comb filtering/acoustic interference issues.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’d put all the Bose on eBay. Guessing since There’s a JBL sub, a set of JBL bookshelf speakers would be available too. It would be simpler, and sound better too. IMO...

 

[Vacas]

Hmm.. Well i think i should go with the recommendation put forward by @BriReeves629 and that sounds logical to use zone 2/3 by dedicating it to music source only.
Further, i was wondering what should be powering 901s as GFA 7400 Adcom does not seem to fulfil the power requirement, i decided to go for CROWN CTS 600.. Any suggestions / Opinions on to this choice?

 

[Vacas]

Guessing since There’s a JBL sub, a set of JBL bookshelf speakers would be available too. It would be simpler, and sound better too. IMO...

You are right bro. I used to have JBL Northridge E Series complete set including E90, EC35 (Center) & EC 10 (Surround) and that really sound well.

 

[PENG]

Hmm.. Well i think i should go with the recommendation put forward by @BriReeves629 and that sounds logical to use zone 2/3 by dedicating it to music source only.
Further, i was wondering what should be powering 901s as GFA 7400 Adcom does not seem to fulfil the power requirement, i decided to go for CROWN CTS 600.. Any suggestions / Opinions on to this choice?

You should be able to do what you want without using z2/z3. Z2/3 uses a lower grade dac.

 

[BriReeves629]

You should be able to do what you want without using z2/z3. Z2/3 uses a lower grade dac.

I don’t believe the model he owns contains a separate Zone 2 DAC, but since he isn’t proposing to set up use for HDMI sources in a second room, he should be able to listen to all of his sources through Zone 2/3.


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[markw]

Maybe I missed it but I gave your manual a quick scan and didn't see where it cautions against using the internal amps to drive speakers when the pre outs are connected to an external amp.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/NA/EN/index.php

 

[Vacas]

Maybe I missed it but I gave your manual a quick scan and didn't see where it cautions against using the internal amps to drive speakers when the pre outs are connected to an external amp.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/NA/EN/index.php

You are right @markw . There is no caution in manual for x4400h but as i said in my previous post, other models explicitly states "not to use both at the same time" just like yamaha dsp A2 state it as WARNING in its manual. That made me confused if It should be used or not..

 

[lovinthehd]

You are right @markw . There is no caution in manual for x4400h but as i said in my previous post, other models explicitly states "not to use both at the same time" just like yamaha dsp A2 state it as WARNING in its manual. That made me confused if It should be used or not..

Maybe it was a warning that having multiple of the same channel in the same room wasn't acoustically ideal? I've not seen any such warnings in an avr with pre-outs....

 

[markw]

You are right @markw . There is no caution in manual for x4400h but as i said in my previous post, other models explicitly states "not to use both at the same time" just like yamaha dsp A2 state it as WARNING in its manual. That made me confused if It should be used or not..

I see where you state that the A2 specifies that but I must question your broad statement 'Most of the manufacturers limit this option as warning "do mot ise speakers on speaker terminals when preout is engaged".'

I've never heard of that before and I've been playing with this stuff since the mid 60's.

 

[Vacas]

broad statement 'Most of the manufacturers limit ".'

I've never heard of that before and I've been playing with this stuff since the mid 60's.

Well that was just an expression

 

[markw]

Well that was just an expression

Fine. That;ll explain your post 20. Now, you seem to double down on that statement in post 32 where you state "other models explicitly states "not to use both at the same time" just like yamaha dsp A2 state it as WARNING in its manual."

Can you name some of those "other models" you've encountered, or was that just an expression, too. Out here in Texas we wouldn't call those "expressions". We would call them what we step in when feeding the cows.

It's beginning to seem like you don't want simple solutions to problems. You just want to create complex issues. You've been offered some great advice here but you just seem to want to confuse the issues.

 

[BriReeves629]

Maybe I missed it but I gave your manual a quick scan and didn't see where it cautions against using the internal amps to drive speakers when the pre outs are connected to an external amp.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/NA/EN/index.php

Just curious now. If you use the same pre-out on a channel that another set of speakers are plugged into, how do you switch between speakers? Wouldn’t both pairs of speakers be playing at the same time?


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[markw]

Just curious now. If you use the same pre-out on a channel that another set of speakers are plugged into, how do you switch between speakers? Wouldn’t both pairs of speakers be playing at the same time?


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Yes, they would, but that's not an insurmountable problem.

if I just wanted to hear the speakers attached to the receiver, I'd power down the external amp.

If I wanted to hear just the speakers attached to the external amp, I'd turn off the speakers on the receiver.

 

[markw]

Ok.. here is one more point... !!! Can i run my BOSE AM 10 directly on my AVR and also use its preouts to my new intended speakers with external power amp at the same time ???

Yes.

Will it harm my avr builtin amp ??

No.

See how simple that was?

 

[BriReeves629]

Yes.

No.

See how simple that was?

That’s great cut and dry, the OP was wanting to use the same AVR on two separate pairs of speakers. Reading the entire thread in context tells you that. There is a way to do this on the equipment he has without turning speakers on and off and that is to use the second or third Zone pre-outs. I know this because I use the same AVR function for my HT and my patio for two channel listening. I don’t think anyone is saying there isn’t other ways to do this, but this would be the simplest way. There is no second inferior DAC on the unit he owns.

When I comment here I am not trying to belittle anyone, but to propose a fix. And I NEVER comment on equipment I am unfamiliar with. I apologize if you were offended sir!


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