Should a power amp be added with High Powered AV Receiver ??

[Vacas]

Hi All,

I am newbie here and wants to learn some more about home audio. Recently built my home theater setup with following gears;

AV Receiver - Denon x4400h
Front A - Bose 901 series 6 (with active eq) powered by ONKYO M5140 power amp.
Front B, Center & Surround - Bose AM 10 Series 4
Sub - JBL E250P

Now the question is that my AV receiver is rated at 125 wrms/Ch. Considering the power requirement of 200wrms to bose AM 10 Series 4 and running 901 at moderate level to compensate the overall home theater, should i add a power amp with my AV Receiver at this time? I have one 5 channel power amp with my friend that i intend to purchase based on your recommendations which is ADCOM GFA 7400, Rated at 100 wrms/ch. I am certain that it will add more dynamics and quality but will it make any difference to power output, loudness etc? or should i say that adding 100wrms power is logical at AV receiver that is already rated at 125wrms/ch?
Please help..

 

[Leemix]

Try before buying, the denon is very capable so hard to say if there will be any improvment, it might sound a bit different but that might not be better, just different.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you are looking to improve the sound, look at the speakers and subs, not more amps.

 

[PENG]

Hi All,

I am newbie here and wants to learn some more about home audio. Recently built my home theater setup with following gears;

AV Receiver - Denon x4400h
Front A - Bose 901 series 6 (with active eq) powered by ONKYO M5140 power amp.
Front B, Center & Surround - Bose AM 10 Series 4
Sub - JBL E250P

or should i say that adding 100wrms power is logical at AV receiver that is already rated at 125wrms/ch?
Please help..

I would say no, I don't believe the am 10 speakers can take much power. The AVR can offer more than they need already.

 

[one more time]

Now the question is that my AV receiver is rated at 125 wrms/Ch. Considering the power requirement of 200wrms .

That is not a "requirement". It's the theoretical maximum power they can handle without self destructing.

Just because you buy tires for your car that are rated for 150 mph doesn't mean you must drive them at that speed to get good performance.

Besides, you wouldn't be "adding" 100 watts to your existing 125 watts. You would be replacing that 125 watt amp with one rated at 100 watts. ...think about it.

Your best solution was pointed out in post # 3

 

[GrimSurfer]

That is not a "requirement". It's the theoretical maximum power they can handle without self destructing.

Just because you buy tires for your car that are rated for 150 mph doesn't mean you must drive them at that speed to get good performance.

Agree.

One way of framing the requirement is:

1. Desired sound pressure (dB)
2. At a given distance (meters... sorry to go metric here)
3. Using "x" number of speakers
4. With a speaker sensitivity of "y" dB/Watt/m
= a certain power rating

Times 1.3 for overhead, changing speakers, etc. (The 1.3 is a WAG it's wise to go slightly over the requirement as watts are cheap and headroom impossible to buy after point of purchase).

Provided this figure doesn't exceed the max power handling of the speakers, you're good to go. If it does, you need new speakers... and have t start the calculations all over again because the speaker sensitivity will have changed

That avoids the problem of shopping for an arbitrary power figure. Not exact by any means, but closer than simply shopping for a big power rating.

 

[KEW]

Just because you buy tires for your car that are rated for 150 mph doesn't mean you must drive them at that speed to get good performance.

@ParadigmDawg , he is talking to you!

 

[ryanosaur]

Headroom is valuable, good speakers are invaluable!
@AcuDefTechGuy gave you the perfect advice: don’t worry about amplification. Worry about good speakers.
Are you HT, mostly? Percentage HT to Music?

 

[Vacas]

Try before buying, the denon is very capable so hard to say if there will be any improvment, it might sound a bit different but that might not be better, just different.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well i just tried to see the difference by borrowing it up from my friend. Overall system response @ x volume is almost same however the sound characters have changed positively..

 

[Vacas]

Headroom is valuable, good speakers are invaluable!
@AcuDefTechGuy gavecyoubthe perfect advice: don’t worry about amplification. Worry about good speakers.
Are you HT, mostly? Percentage HT to Music?

Sir i mostly watch movies so yes i am more towards HT but since i have bought these 901s lately so yes have started giving some time to music also.

 

[Vacas]

Considering the fact that my 100wrms new power amp will not add any good to my AVR performance thru its builtin amp, i am now thinking to keep my home theater setup different to my music. This means that 901s must not be playing any sound while watching movie and only AM Q0 shud serve the purpose and viceversa. But since i have experienced hooking up both, my final outcome states that Denon X4400h has more power, dynamics and natural warm sound than Adcom GFA 7400.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

good speakers are invaluable!

 

[Vacas]

Try before buying, the denon is very capable so hard to say if there will be any improvment, it might sound a bit different but that might not be better, just different.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ok.. here is one more point... !!! Can i run my BOSE AM 10 directly on my AVR and also use its preouts to my new intended speakers with external power amp at the same time ??? Will it harm my avr builtin amp ?? This will give me an option to go in full theater ambience whenever i want !!!
Please dont mind my silly ideas but its just a thought.. !!

 

[Vacas]

If you are looking to improve the sound, look at the speakers and subs, not more amps.

Agree as most people have given the same opinion so i am considering this option. To proceed, i have bose 901s that can be used as front SPKRS. so i only have to add one center and a surround. What do u think of Bose 101 music monitor as surround and JBL EC25 as center as these gears are available with me right now... ! Any expert opinion / suggestion ??

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agree as most people have given the same opinion so i am considering this option. To proceed, i have bose 901s that can be used as front SPKRS. so i only have to add one center and a surround. What do u think of Bose 101 music monitor as surround and JBL EC25 as center as these gears are available with me right now... ! Any expert opinion / suggestion ??

If the speakers sound good to you, then it's good enough.

I don't think many people here will recommend Bose.

Most people will also frown on mixing brands.

 

[ryanosaur]

It is neither my interest, or desire to argue merit, here. I think that what you are asking is a non-starter because most of us are not interested in that product. I have owned some of their gear in the past, and I will never go back to it again. Why?... Sure, they sound good. They do not make great sound.
You have a very capable AVR. That D&M does not give info on what power all-channels driven works out to is frutrating. It is speculation that my Marantz is probably ~60-70w RMS with all 9 channels going. Yours could be about 80. That is pure speculation, and only delving into the world of running a Sin wave at stress-test levels, which is what @one more time mentioned in his post above.
Now consider that real-world power applications are significantly different than how the stress tests are run. Your amp may very well be capable of playing Music or Movies at reference levels with proper speakers. Assuming you have a 90dB sensitive speaker... and it takes only 1w to achieve that 90dB @ 1 meter distance, you are already listening at near reference level SPL at your LP (you lose 6dB SPL for every doubling of distance). 64w, @ 1m distance clears reference level dynamic peaks, and if you were to listen at a distance of ~6' from your speakers, you would need ~128w to clear the reference level dynamic peak at you LP.
Most of us don't listen that loud.
Moreover, modern Amps should not color sound output in any way. All they do is amplify an electric signal. Most here will agree with that statement, I think. What creates changes in sound quality is the speaker (techically, transducers, which convert electrical signal to soundwave), the room, and the interactions between them.
Which brings me dangerously close to the very topic I don't want to discuss right now: how a series of transducers in a box creates "amazing" sound, what is the definition of that, and whether a certain product [read: any product] qualifies as meeting that criteria.

Listening is subjective. If you are happy. Accept it. And enjoy

If you want to learn about your gear, and how to get the most out of it, you are in the right place!

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Ok.. here is one more point... !!! Can i run my BOSE AM 10 directly on my AVR and also use its preouts to my new intended speakers with external power amp at the same time ??? Will it harm my avr builtin amp ?? This will give me an option to go in full theater ambience whenever i want !!!
Please dont mind my silly ideas but its just a thought.. !!

First off, I had a AM10 system a while back and I’ll echo the recommendation of at least auditioning other speakers. I much preferred what I heard when I tried something different. If you still prefer the Bose after hearing something else in your room, there’s nothing wrong with that. What sounds good to you is what sounds good. Just don’t limit your options.

Second, I personally would only run the Bose satellites through the bass module. That’s how’s they’re designed to work. I don’t think going directly to the AVR/amp would hurt the AVR/amp but it could damage the speakers. Those drivers are meant to be used a specific way.

 

[KEW]

I used to have a pair of 901's the way they fill a room is pretty cool, but they have other shortcomings. A lot depends on what type of music you listen to. Something like Chris Botti's trumpet will reveal absences in the upper frequencies of a trumpet's harmonics (not fundamentals).
While it is not the direction I would point you if you asked what speaker to buy for the same money; however, all in all it is a fun, engaging speaker and since it is what you have, enjoy it!

 

[Vacas]

It is neither my interest, or desire to argue merit, here. I think that what you are asking is a non-starter because most of us are not interested in that product. I have owned some of their gear in the past, and I will never go back to it again. Why?... Sure, they sound good. They do not make great sound.
You have a very capable AVR. That D&M does not give info on what power all-channels driven works out to is frutrating. It is speculation that my Marantz is probably ~60-70w RMS with all 9 channels going. Yours could be about 80. That is pure speculation, and only delving into the world of running a Sin wave at stress-test levels, which is what @one more time mentioned in his post above.
Now consider that real-world power applications are significantly different than how the stress tests are run. Your amp may very well be capable of playing Music or Movies at reference levels with proper speakers. Assuming you have a 90dB sensitive speaker... and it takes only 1w to achieve that 90dB @ 1 meter distance, you are already listening at near reference level SPL at your LP (you lose 6dB SPL for every doubling of distance). 64w, @ 1m distance clears reference level dynamic peaks, and if you were to listen at a distance of ~6' from your speakers, you would need ~128w to clear the reference level dynamic peak at you LP.
Most of us don't listen that loud.
Moreover, modern Amps should not color sound output in any way. All they do is amplify an electric signal. Most here will agree with that statement, I think. What creates changes in sound quality is the speaker (techically, transducers, which convert electrical signal to soundwave), the room, and the interactions between them.
Which brings me dangerously close to the very topic I don't want to discuss right now: how a series of transducers in a box creates "amazing" sound, what is the definition of that, and whether a certain product [read: any product] qualifies as meeting that criteria.

Listening is subjective. If you are happy. Accept it. And enjoy

If you want to learn about your gear, and how to get the most out of it, you are in the right place!

@ryanosaur thanks for your detailed inputs. I am sure ibam a place to learn so much from you guys. Would certainly want to have another session on either PMs to know calculation criteria on SPL measuring and other tech stuff to correct setup, gears etc.....

 

[Vacas]

First off, I had a AM10 system a while back and I’ll echo the recommendation of at least auditioning other speakers. I much preferred what I heard when I tried something different. If you still prefer the Bose after hearing something else in your room, there’s nothing wrong with that. What sounds good to you is what sounds good. Just don’t limit your options.

Second, I personally would only run the Bose satellites through the bass module. That’s how’s they’re designed to work. I don’t think going directly to the AVR/amp would hurt the AVR/amp but it could damage the speakers. Those drivers are meant to be used a specific way.

Youvare right bro. What i meant to say to ise AM10 along with its base module ofcourse. Since its kind of passive therefore cannot take it off. What i was wondering if one can use speaker terminals and their PRE OUTs at the same time !!!! Most of the manufacturers limit this option as warning "do mot ise speakers on speaker terminals when preout is engaged". I used to have YAMAHA DSP A2 and read this warning in its manual. Plz guide something about it..
Further my previous setup was JBL Northridge Series E.
Front E90
Center EC25
Surround E10
AVR - Harmon Kardon 255
My analysis is that AM10 is good when u dont want to compromise space in ur theater room.. otherwise better options are available... !!