Back on the market for a stereo or AVR

[PENG]

Well, all that info makes sense. If the chips are the bottlenecks and D&M use the same akm DACs as onkyo RZ series. Should i just save money and go back to the 820 series at 549? I don’t want to spend extra if it’s unnecessary or if it won’t gain performance.

If you don't ever need more than 7 channels, then the RZ 820 is hard to beat, but I think there is a good chance you may regret, no being able to do 7.1.4 or even 5.1.4. If you are concerned about using an LSI chip for volume control, the RZ 820 has one of those too, not the same as the older Marantz Dr. Rich mentioned, but a similar one. Also, I agree with Dr. Rich's logic, but I think he is wrong to assume just because an LSI chip with poorer specs (in relative sense), its sound quality would not be as good as even a lower end integrated amp. For example the similar Rohm chip he mentioned was also found in the Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp that quite a few posters seemed impressed with. The RZ 820 also use the Rohm chip, but an updated one to the one in the A-S801, the specs are very similar though. I am saying that the sound quality of an AVR, while logically limited by the chip with the lowest noise/distortions specs etc., for real world music and applications, they can, and I think they are, still transparent to human.

In terms of value and AV performance in general, the $899/$999 D&M pair (4400/7012) are unbeatable imo, especially the Marantz. They are one year outdated, but as long as they are brand new with factory warranty, they are still unbeatable.

 

[M Code]

I went by S&V's bench tests, that showed the AVR-7300 is more powerful than the AVR-8000.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/harmankardon-avr-8000-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/harman-kardon-avr-7300-av-receiver-measurements

Neither one managed to beat the Onkyo TX-SR805 or the Denon AVR-4308CI in two channel driven into 4 ohms, but the HK AVR 7300 did do similarly good as the Denon and the Onkyo, but not the HK AVR 8000.

Again, that's just based on S&V's measuring protocols. Anyone of those are going to be hard to match by any of today's 9,11,13 channel AVRs in terms of outputs into 8,4 ohms, 1,2,5 or 7 channel driven.

Major differences between 8000 & 7300 are:

• 8000 was a 5.1, 7300 was 7.1
• 7300 was the 1st AVR that used a Faroujda video processor
• 8000 was Ultra THX, 7300 was not THX certified
• 7300 was in introduced a few years later than the 8000
• The 8000 used a (2) audio DSPs, 7300 a single DSP
• The 7300 was rated @125W/CH like the 8000 but @ least for the referenced test reports the 7300 had more over-design headroom

Both AVRs were large monsters, very heavy about 50LBs..

Just my $0.02...

 

[Ken32]

If you don't ever need more than 7 channels, then the RZ 820 is hard to beat, but I think there is a good chance you may regret, no being able to do 7.1.4 or even 5.1.4. If you are concerned about using an LSI chip for volume control, the RZ 820 has one of those too, not the same as the older Marantz Dr. Rich mentioned, but a similar one. Also, I agree with Dr. Rich's logic, but I think he is wrong to assume just because an LSI chip with poorer specs (in relative sense), its sound quality would not be as good as even a lower end integrated amp. For example the similar Rohm chip he mentioned was also found in the Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp that quite a few posters seemed impressed with. The RZ 820 also use the Rohm chip, but an updated one to the one in the A-S801, the specs are very similar though. I am saying that the sound quality of an AVR, while logically limited by the chip with the lowest noise/distortions specs etc., for real world music and applications, they can, and I think they are, still transparent to human.

In terms of value and AV performance in general, the $899/$999 D&M pair (4400/7012) are unbeatable imo, especially the Marantz. They are one year outdated, but as long as they are brand new with factory warranty, they are still unbeatable.

Think I’ll just stick with the 7012. I plan on doing Atmos eventually.

 

[Ken32]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

 

[Ken32]

@PENG @
I haven’t pulled the trigger yet on a unit. I’m looking to do so tonight no later than tomorrow. I’m considering the pioneer lx503. It looks similar to the rz830 but uses 2 different DACs instead of one. Are there benefits to that? Onkyo uses multichannel ak4458. Pioneer uses the same but also has PCM5101 (TI). Maybe one dedicated to stereo and the other multichannel? Could you please explains to me any difference if any at all? Or which unit would be the better buy? Both are 599 from my view. Looking for opinions from all. Feel free to chime in.

Thanks!

 

[Phase 2]

Get the A1080!!

The amplifier circuit in the 3490 was designed by Richie Miller (based in WoodBury, NY),same guy also did the HK Citation series.. The most powerful HK AVR to the best of my knowledge was the AVR8000 rated @125W/channel..

Just my $0.02...

Had the 3490, wish I hadn't let it go.
If I remember right, 120 X 2 into 8 Ohms plus had very good headroom. Richie made a legend of a unit there.

 

[Ken32]

I read this article. Which has me wondering about multiple DAC vs single multichannel for sound quality.....

Unlike the TX-RZ920 which utilizes three different DAC models, the TX-RZ830 and TX-RZ820 don't have dedicated stereo DACs for either the front channels or for Zone 2 and 3, meaning they rely only on the multi-channel AK4458 DACs which have a signal-to-noise ratio of 115dB and THD+N of -107dB. In comparison, the TX-RZ920 uses AK4490 for the front (L/R) channels

 

[GrimSurfer]

Get the A1080!!
Had the 3490, wish I hadn't let it go.
If I remember right, 120 X 2 into 8 Ohms plus had very good headroom. Richie made a legend of a unit there.

Those older HK high current amps had muscle.

 

[PENG]

@PENG @
I haven’t pulled the trigger yet on a unit. I’m looking to do so tonight no later than tomorrow. I’m considering the pioneer lx503. It looks similar to the rz830 but uses 2 different DACs instead of one. Are there benefits to that? Onkyo uses multichannel ak4458. Pioneer uses the same but also has PCM5101 (TI). Maybe one dedicated to stereo and the other multichannel? Could you please explains to me any difference if any at all? Or which unit would be the better buy? Both are 599 from my view. Looking for opinions from all. Feel free to chime in.

Thanks!

They likely use the cheaper and lower end PCM 5100 for zone 2/3 and/or network streamer so basically a cost saving thing.