Crossover advice Definitive Technology 1000 series

[cmtribbl]

Dear AudioHolics,

I am new to this and purchased my system on a budget. I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-V385BL AV receiver with a BIC America F12 subwoofer. I am using this set up for movies and games. I have 4 def. tech promonitor 1000 bookshelf speakers and a def. tech procenter 1000. When I ran the Yamaha YPAO it set the crossover to 110hz. I know the recommended crossover is 80hz. With the YPAO auto calibration setting the crossover at 110hz is this a good setting for my system? Or should I adjust it to 80hz? My drivers are not larger than 6 inches. Thank you so much. For the viewers I am open to any advice. =)

Current configuration is as follows:
Front speakers - small
Center - small
surround - small
crossover -110

Level is as follows:
Front L -0 db
Front R -0 db
Center 0 db
Surround L +2.5
Surround R + 2.5
Subwoofer 0 db

 

[lovinthehd]

YPAO's suggestion might be better than Def Tec's. 80 is a good general starting point so try it and see if you have a preference, also try any points available in between as well. There's no hard and fast rules really without perhaps detailed measurements of your sub/speaker relationship.

 

[cmtribbl]

YPAO's suggestion might be better than Def Tec's. 80 is a good general starting point so try it and see if you have a preference, also try any points available in between as well. There's no hard and fast rules really without perhaps detailed measurements of your sub/speaker relationship.

Thank you lovinthehd,

What does adjusting the crossover from 110hz to 80hz do exactly?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you lovinthehd,

So adjusting the crossover from 110hz to 80hz. What does this do exactly?

It shifts the point at which the two slopes (from a high pass filter for the speakers and a low pass filter for the sub) "cross over". A crossover isn't a brick wall, but where the slopes "cross over"...maybe a graphic can help you picture what's going on:

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yay! More pictures...

 

[cmtribbl]

It shifts the point at which the two slopes (from a high pass filter for the speakers and a low pass filter for the sub) "cross over". A crossover isn't a brick wall, but where the slopes "cross over"...maybe a graphic can help you picture what's going on:
View attachment 28257

Is the crossover meant for the subwoofer?

 

[cmtribbl]

Yay! More pictures...

William,

Thank you for the picture. Is the crossover meant for the subwoofer?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

William,

Thank you for the picture.

My pleasure. I think it illustrates the sub/speaker relationship clearly. HD’s is a good example as well. My hunch is ypao got it right, but definitely experiment.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is the crossover meant for the subwoofer?

The crossover in an avr is a combination of the two filters, low pass for the sub and high pass for the speakers, but yes, it's to incorporate your speakers with your subwoofer. In William's picture it shows LFE separately altho with seemingly a bad representation of what happens sub 20hz; many avrs have a separate LPF of LFE for where you want to cut off the LFE channel frequencies (separate from any bass management of sending to the sub bass frequencies from other channels).

LFE channel lower limits wouldn't be limited to 20hz before being rolled off is what I was referring to; it should be capable flat down to something like 2 or 3 Hz IIRC.

 

[zieglj01]

The Definitive Pro 1000 is -3 db at 150 hz -- but has a slow roll-off and is -6 db down at 45 hz ..... so around 100 hz is not a bad crossover
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-procinema-1000-speaker-system-and-pioneer-elite-vsx-84txsi-av-receiv-0

 

[cmtribbl]

Zieglij01,

Thank you for your feedback. Yeah the YPAO set the crossover at 110. I have played around with the crossover between 80-110. I honestly can not tell a difference. The YPAO sticks with 110 when I run the sound test based off of my current seating position. So should I leave it at 110?

Current configuration is as follows:
Front speakers - small
Center - small
surround - small
crossover -110

Level is as follows:
Front L -0 db
Front R -0 db
Center 0 db
Surround L +2.5
Surround R + 2.0
Subwoofer 0 db

Not sure why it put the surround at those db points? Just figured the YPAO knows what it is doing.

 

[zieglj01]

Zieglij01,
Thank you for your feedback. Yeah the YPAO set the crossover at 110. I have played around with the crossover between 80-110. I honestly can not tell a difference. The YPAO sticks with 110 when I run the sound test based off of my current seating position. So should I leave it at 110?

If you do not really hear a difference in your room -- then set it lower than 110 to keep some of the deeper male voices out of the sub

 

[cmtribbl]

If you do not really hear a difference in your room -- then set it lower than 110 to keep some of the deeper male voices out of the sub

What does setting the crossover lower do? I just set it to 80. Do you believe that is better based off of my speaker specs for def. technology and my subwoofer? I have a BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer. Or would you suggest putting the crossover to 90 or 100? I greatly appreciate your feedback.

 

[PENG]

The Definitive Pro 1000 is -3 db at 150 hz -- but has a slow roll-off and is -6 db down at 45 hz ..... so around 100 hz is not a bad crossover
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-procinema-1000-speaker-system-and-pioneer-elite-vsx-84txsi-av-receiv-0

That is for a whole system with a subwoofer. Without a subwoofer, I bet the pro 1000's -3 db may still be 150 hz but the -6 db point will be much higher, probably right about 110-120 Hz, if not higher.

 

[PENG]

What does setting the crossover lower do? I just set it to 80. Do you believe that is better based off of my speaker specs for def. technology and my subwoofer? I have a BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer. Or would you suggest putting the crossover to 90 or 100? I greatly appreciate your feedback.

You can go by your ears and brain, but based on available specs, I think YPAO did just about the right thing. I would leave it at 110. If anything, may be try 120 or even 150 as it definitely would help those 5.25" drivers in plastic enclosures weighing 7 lbs soak and wet. It would help that small AVR too, the def techs may be small, but they have impedance dips and potentially some large phase angles at somewhere below 350 Hz.

 

[zieglj01]

That is for a whole system with a subwoofer. Without a subwoofer, I bet the pro 1000's -3 db may still be 150 hz but the -6 db point will be much higher, probably right about 110-120 Hz, if not higher.

The way that I read it is that they measured the satellites and sub separate shown on the page. Others have commented on the bass that they can give -- I would not be surprised if the - 6db was at least 80 hz as 45 hz may be somewhat optimistic

 

[zieglj01]

What does setting the crossover lower do? I just set it to 80. Do you believe that is better based off of my speaker specs for def. technology and my subwoofer? I have a BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer. Or would you suggest putting the crossover to 90 or 100? I greatly appreciate your feedback.

Try 100 hz for the fun of it -- I would not go lower than 100 hz

 

[cmtribbl]

You can go by your ears and brain, but based on available specs, I think YPAO did just about the right thing. I would leave it at 110. If anything, may be try 120 or even 150 as it definitely would help those 5.25" drivers in plastic enclosures weighing 7 lbs soak and wet. It would help that small AVR too, the def techs may be small, but they have impedance dips and potentially some large phase angles at somewhere below 350 Hz.

So raising the crossover to 120-150 will put more bass to the sub? Sorry, I realize these may be dumb questions. Also, my receiver doesn't allow me to pic 150. I have it on 120 now. The graph on the ProCinema review looks like the crossover is at 150. So 120 is the closet I can get.

 

[PENG]

The way that I read it is that they measured the satellites and sub separate shown on the page. Others have commented on the bass that they can give -- I would not be surprised if the - 6db was at least 80 hz as 45 hz may be somewhat optimistic

Sorry I was too quick to respond, and you are correct that the satellites were measured separately. So the graphs show the -6 dBpoint is 45 Hz. However, the fact that the -3 dB point is 150 Hz, YPAO did pick a reasonable point of 110 Hz. Hard to know what his in room response it, so there is no harm trying a little lower, say 100 Hz, but without seeing the in room response curves, it is safer to set it higher than lower.

 

[PENG]

So raising the crossover to 120-150 will put more bass to the sub? Sorry, I realize these may be dumb questions. Also, my receiver doesn't allow me to pic 150. I have it on 120 now. The graph on the ProCinema review looks like the crossover is at 150. So 120 is the closet I can get.

I think 120 Hz is a good bet. How far do you sit, and how far are your speakers and sub from the wall?

Generally speaking raising the crossover to 120-150 Hz will in fact put more bass to the subwoofer and allow the satellites to be more at ease focusing more on the mid bass that they are designed to handle. The only drawback would be localized bass, in a smaller room that should not be an issue unless you set the XO point even higher than 150 Hz.