Outlaw X-13s

[KEW]

The RP-8000F IS surprising.. I don't want to say too much more since there is a review forthcoming, but all I will say is I am not surprised you like them so much...

Yeah, the tuning on the latest version of the reference premier struck me as a substantial departure from the traditional Klipsch sound.
I was surprised.

 

[KEW]

I actually sold off the last of the Klipsch two weeks ago. Currently running a 3.2. When I go back to surround it with be with dome tweeters. I actually became kinda turned off to horn loaded tweeter after owing them. IMO, their crazy treble heavy. The only pair of Klipsch that I'd like to own one day would the La Scala's. I hear their great for the late night Jazz, which I'm into and apparently do a super job with re-producing saxophones.

Right now, I am toying with having parallel music-only and a HT-only systems in my living room.
Given that I would have a system dedicated to music reproduction, I am entertaining using Klipsch for the HT end of things.
I have the RF-82 ii series, which is not ideal for music (although I have a friend who had paid close attention to set up and using judicious toe-in to take the edge off has gotten pretty good music capability out of them). However, I find that they give an exciting presentation which is wonderful for something like Avengers where there is lots of action. I do not have complaints with "the Klipsch sound" from a typical movie where I feel the dialogue is more clear than many speakers that do music better. If it was a heavily music oriented movie, I would switch to the music system.

So I fully understand where you are coming from on music.
Personally, I found the RP-280F comfortable for music (not ideal, but I did not feel like I was being assaulted by them!).
My exposure to the newest RP series was very brief, but compared to my expectations (for Klipsch) they were surprisingly laid back, and I felt it reflected a substantial change in Klipsch's design philosophy.
Here are my thoughts after I listened to the new RP-600m:
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/polk-audio-vs-klipsch-syndrome.113192/page-12#post-1287795

Reading this today, in retrospect, my comments may have been a little biased by my expectations of a Klipsch speaker. They may not really be laid-back, only laid-back relative to my "Klipach expectations".
I'm not sure how well the new sound fits into their "Pissing off the neighbors for 60+ years" philosophy!
Looking forward to seeing James' measurements and discussion!

 

[Alex2507]

I am toying with having parallel music-only and a HT-only systems in my living room.

I tried that.

It just made for two compromised systems as opposed to being all in on the best system possible.

 

[snakeeyes]

Anything they have I can shoot out they'll just pick one speaker set up and move it to the other room where the other set are at. Exceptions being the crazy big heavy speakers of course

The have golden ear B&W SVS Klipsch there's a best buy magnolia store the biggest one and they also have some other brands as well paradigm kef and one or two others in that store. Although they won't move speakers around and do a shootout like Bjorn's will.

Have you narrowed down your choices? And are you able to buy any of those in 3? You mentioned you want 3 identical towers. Maybe deserves its own thread.

 

[Danzilla31]

Have you narrowed down your choices? And are you able to buy any of those in 3? You mentioned you want 3 identical towers. Maybe deserves its own thread.

Yeah I'm not saying too much cud I don't want to hijack the thread lol

Let's just say 3 of the Klipsch RPF7III's and 4 of there RP8000f's for my base 7 just jumped up into 1rst place in my auditions. For now anyway! Lol

 

[CB22]

Right now, I am toying with having parallel music-only and a HT-only systems in my living room.
Given that I would have a system dedicated to music reproduction, I am entertaining using Klipsch for the HT end of things.
I have the RF-82 ii series, which is not ideal for music (although I have a friend who had paid close attention to set up and using judicious toe-in to take the edge off has gotten pretty good music capability out of them). However, I find that they give an exciting presentation which is wonderful for something like Avengers where there is lots of action. I do not have complaints with "the Klipsch sound" from a typical movie where I feel the dialogue is more clear than many speakers that do music better. If it was a heavily music oriented movie, I would switch to the music system.

So I fully understand where you are coming from on music.
Personally, I found the RP-280F comfortable for music (not ideal, but I did not feel like I was being assaulted by them!).
My exposure to the newest RP series was very brief, but compared to my expectations (for Klipsch) they were surprisingly laid back, and I felt it reflected a substantial change in Klipsch's design philosophy.
Here are my thoughts after I listened to the new RP-600m:
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/polk-audio-vs-klipsch-syndrome.113192/page-12#post-1287795

Reading this today, in retrospect, my comments may have been a little biased by my expectations of a Klipsch speaker. They may not really be laid-back, only laid-back relative to my "Klipach expectations".
I'm not sure how well the new sound fits into their "Pissing off the neighbors for 60+ years" philosophy!
Looking forward to seeing James' measurements and discussion!

I owned that entire 5.1 the 280's, the 450c and the book shelves. I forget their model #. I bought before I joined AH. They had great reviews on Amazon and look very pretty with all the gold drives. I think the heavy treble is why I liked them so much at first and ultimately wound up not like them over the course of the year. IMO, they are great for HT with two conditions, #1 you have a larger room and #2 you have some sort of room treatment for higher frequencies. I remember one night I watched Ghost Protocol fairly loud but not ridiculously loud. For about the next three days I felt like my ears had a hangover. I think I got listening fatigue from the treble ping-ponging off the walls like crazy over the course of two hours. The longer I owned the Klipsch speaker the less I liked them.

When I got the BMRs (with a push from you KEW) is when I really had the revolution. Klipsch pours a ton of money into marketing and advertising and look at Dennis speakers. Do you see them at big consumer electronics conferences? I'm sure they would get a lot of attention if they were there with a custom made copper Scan Speakers and copper RAAL tweeters. I have heard from a lot of people that the RF-82 ii are very good for music but I can't say I've never heard em.

Now the Klipsch heritage series, on the other hand, is something that interests me more. And I tell you this, the heritage speakers hold their value way better than the made in China speakers. So say you get a pair of Forte's and don't like a year from you'll at least recoup a good bit of your cash. And there's a bunch of Klipsch fanboys out there waiting to hop on these deals. I think I spent about 2k on the RP line and sold them for 1k after a year + of use.

 

[Danzilla31]

I owned that entire 5.1 the 280's, the 450c and the book shelves. I forget their model #. I bought before I joined AH. They had great reviews on Amazon and look very pretty with all the gold drives. I think the heavy treble is why I liked them so much at first and ultimately wound up not like them over the course of the year. IMO, they are great for HT with two conditions, #1 you have a larger room and #2 you have some sort of room treatment for higher frequencies. I remember one night I watched Ghost Protocol fairly loud but not ridiculously loud. For about the next three days I felt like my ears had a hangover. I think I got listening fatigue from the treble ping-ponging off the walls like crazy over the course of two hours. The longer I owned the Klipsch speaker the less I liked them.

When I got the BMRs (with a push from you KEW) is when I really had the revolution. Klipsch pours a ton of money into marketing and advertising and look at Dennis speakers. Do you see them at big consumer electronics conferences? I'm sure they would get a lot of attention if they were there with a custom made copper Scan Speakers and copper RAAL tweeters. I have heard from a lot of people that the RF-82 ii are very good for music but I can't say I've never heard em.

Now the Klipsch heritage series, on the other hand, is something that interests me more. And I tell you this, the heritage speakers hold their value way better than the made in China speakers. So say you get a pair of Forte's and don't like a year from you'll at least recoup a good bit of your cash. And there's a bunch of Klipsch fanboys out there waiting to hop on these deals. I think I spent about 2k on the RP line and sold them for 1k after a year + of use.

Yeah the 280 line is the one before this one this one has a completely redesigned tweeter from what I hear. All I can tell you is I like it better then my prime towers and I was shocked at that.

Still an in room debut is needed before I'll seal the deal so to speak. I'm looking very forward to James review and will probably wait till after that review because he always gives outstanding detail on not only specs sound and how a speaker works but also how to set it up properly in room due to the information he provides.

 

[KEW]

When I got the BMRs (with a push from you KEW) is when I really had the revolution. Klipsch pours a ton of money into marketing and advertising and look at Dennis speakers. Do you see them at big consumer electronics conferences? I'm sure they would get a lot of attention if they were there with a custom made copper Scan Speakers and copper RAAL tweeters. I have heard from a lot of people that the RF-82 ii are very good for music but I can't say I've never heard em.

I would look at it as the RP-280F was an incremental improvement on the RF-82 ii. The RP-8000f (I think I have the new number system right) is, soundwise, a substantially different beast! It looks close to the same, but largely sounds like a different speaker. If I had heard it blind, I would not have expected it to be Klipsch!
Glad you are enjoying the BMR's! Always easy to recommend Dennis' speakers. If you want neutral and accurate, they are the deal, no caveats required!

 

[KEW]

I tried that.

It just made for two compromised systems as opposed to being all in on the best system possible.

What were you music-only and HT-only speakers and what was your final solution?

 

[Alex2507]

What were you music-only and HT-only speakers and what was your final solution?

The H/T things were some JBL on wall jobs I thought were sexy as hell in a star trek sort of way. The music makers on an adjacent wall stuffed into corners that made their bottom end boomy were some Primus 250's.

The solution was Primus 360's and the big PC350 center in the H/T role instead of the on-walls. Speaker placement was better for music and of course bigger is always better so the music was better out of the 360's than out of the 250's.

The downside was losing the space required for bigger is better. Once I decided to give the space up, everything sounded better. Less fiddle f^%&ing going from one output to the other was also one less nuisance.

 

[KEW]

The H/T things were some JBL on wall jobs I thought were sexy as hell in a star trek sort of way. The music makers on an adjacent wall stuffed into corners that made their bottom end boomy were some Primus 250's.

The solution was Primus 360's and the big PC350 center in the H/T role instead of the on-walls. Speaker placement was better for music and of course bigger is always better so the music was better out of the 360's than out of the 250's.

The downside was losing the space required for bigger is better. Once I decided to give the space up, everything sounded better. Less fiddle f^%&ing going from one output to the other was also one less nuisance.

If I do this, I will be giving up space to have two systems, especially if I don't use the same subs for both systems (not sure I can, or want to if I can)!

Looking at the IndependentRecording.Net Spectral Data Chart (right side of image below),check out the description of "High Midrange" (under the green bar). It says that this region provides:
Percussive Attacks
Vocal Recognition/Hard Consonants
Clarity and definition
Too much = Listener Fatigue

My theory is that this range is emphasized to get what I would call "the classic Klipsch sound"
In moderation, I can handle a little of that for music, but it is generally not ideal!
However, for HT it is welcome as long as I don't experience fatigue! And that is what I need to determine before I commit to this plan. I realize that I have watched action clips from movies and loved the Klipsch sound - for movies, it heightens the excitement! I recognize it is an artificial "enhancement", but I am okay with that! However, I need to watch a couple of full movies back to back to determine if I get fatigue. I am thinking that most movies have quick impacts in this range, but not that common to have the steady high midrange frequency content that would induce fatigue, while music often does (cymbals, for example, are often used in a continuous manner on many songs).
CB22's experience with "Ghost Protocol" has me wondering if that specific movie has more content in the High Midrange spectrum than other movies!

 

[speakerman39]

@CB22 I came across this over on Audio Mart. If interested, it would certainly help your midbass problem. That is, if you have the extra room. Here is a link:


https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649499610-hsu-mbm12mk2-2pairs-450-each/


Just thought that I would mention the MBM's!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[CB22]

Don't see edit button for the original post, but I thought I'd leave an update. I got more of the mid bass problem solved but I don't think it's entire there yet. I wound up spending half the day re-arranging the entire room so that both the subs could be in the corners. Re- ran the room correction and the bass is way more "balanced." The SQ improved a great deal. After a long time fiddling, jazz/ classical sounds much better when being played in EQ2 mode/ both ports sealed but I still prefer the HSU. I think EQ1 mode with one port open the the hot spot for movies. I also picked up an RCA splitter and put the HSU directly behind where I'm sitting. BADDAZZZ. Had the whole house rattling with edge of tomorrow. I prefer front firing subs as you feel the bass more. Where as the down firing subs the house feels the bass and the bass first.

 

[Danzilla31]

Don't see edit button for the original post, but I thought I'd leave an update. I got more of the mid bass problem solved but I don't think it's entire there yet. I wound up spending half the day re-arranging the entire room so that both the subs could be in the corners. Re- ran the room correction and the bass is way more "balanced." The SQ improved a great deal. After a long time fiddling, jazz/ classical sounds much better when being played in EQ2 mode/ both ports sealed but I still prefer the HSU. I think EQ1 mode with one port open the the hot spot for movies. I also picked up an RCA splitter and put the HSU directly behind where I'm sitting. BADDAZZZ. Had the whole house rattling with edge of tomorrow. I prefer front firing subs as you feel the bass more. Where as the down firing subs the house feels the bass and the bass first.

Yeah I'm getting super addicted to near field bass myself both mine are behind my couches

 

[snakeeyes]

Don't see edit button for the original post, but I thought I'd leave an update. I got more of the mid bass problem solved but I don't think it's entire there yet. I wound up spending half the day re-arranging the entire room so that both the subs could be in the corners. Re- ran the room correction and the bass is way more "balanced." The SQ improved a great deal. After a long time fiddling, jazz/ classical sounds much better when being played in EQ2 mode/ both ports sealed but I still prefer the HSU. I think EQ1 mode with one port open the the hot spot for movies. I also picked up an RCA splitter and put the HSU directly behind where I'm sitting. BADDAZZZ. Had the whole house rattling with edge of tomorrow. I prefer front firing subs as you feel the bass more. Where as the down firing subs the house feels the bass and the bass first.

Not sure front firing matters but it’s sounding from your description like you prefer the HSU for some reason. Possibly the driver or cabinet etc, are creating a more accurate sound in your room. I don’t use loaded terms but the products are a sum of the design, parts, and assembly.

 

[CB22]

Not sure front firing matters but it’s sounding from your description like you prefer the HSU for some reason.

So far I prefer the outlaw for HT and bass heavy content and the HSU for jazz/ classical/ reggae and rock classics. With the front firing subs I'm referring to the "feeling" you get rather than what you actually hearing. IDK kind of hard to explain. With a front firing sub right behind you "feel" the air coming at you more. After looking at the X-13's woofer more in detail, the build quality appears to be very good.

 

[snakeeyes]

So far I prefer the outlaw for HT and bass heavy content and the HSU for jazz/ classical/ reggae and rock classics. With the front firing subs I'm referring to the "feeling" you get rather than what you actually hearing. IDK kind of hard to explain. With a front firing sub right behind you "feel" the air coming at you more. After looking at the X-13's woofer more in detail, the build quality appears to be very good.

I think that “chest” bass is a frequency range somewhere near 40hz or 60hz.

 

[ryanosaur]

Not sure front firing matters but it’s sounding from your description like you prefer the HSU for some reason. Possibly the driver or cabinet etc, are creating a more accurate sound in your room. I don’t use loaded terms but the products are a sum of the design, parts, and assembly.

Cabinet gets my vote... big difference between sealed and ported boxes. Its all tradeoffs. I might build a sealed sub just to try out and see what happens. I can always sell it to recoup cog's then build ported if I can't get it to perform...
I'd like to go all ported on my Philharmonic rig, and maybe build the speakers for the greatroom, all sealed.
For the Phil rig, that would mean getting crossover designs from Dennis to redo my sealed mini-phils, then buy the vented cab and crossover parts... should be doable.
Regardless, that sealed box gives a shallow rolloff and better mid-bass. no two ways about it...

...unless you could make a two-way subwoofer with its own mid-bass woofer built in... hmmmm....

edit: though if I understand it correctly, with multiple sealed subs in a closed room, you will not only get output bonus but also extension bonus from room-gain

 

[snakeeyes]

Cabinet gets my vote... big difference between sealed and ported boxes. Its all tradeoffs. I might build a sealed sub just to try out and see what happens. I can always sell it to recoup cog's then build ported if I can't get it to perform...
I'd like to go all ported on my Philharmonic rig, and maybe build the speakers for the greatroom, all sealed.
For the Phil rig, that would mean getting crossover designs from Dennis to redo my sealed mini-phils, then buy the vented cab and crossover parts... should be doable.
Regardless, that sealed box gives a shallow rolloff and better mid-bass. no two ways about it...

...unless you could make a two-way subwoofer with its own mid-bass woofer built in... hmmmm....

My pair of HSU VTF2.5 in my living room have more midbass than the Rythmik LVX12 in my small theater room but they are perfect to stay in that space as far as WAF. I will probably add a second LVX12 at some point in the theater room but may consider dual 15in subs like the VTF15

 

[shadyJ]

I think that “chest” bass is a frequency range somewhere near 40hz or 60hz.

Chest bass is a bit higher frequencies. One interesting thing is that if you really want that punch-in-the-chest feeling, simply open your mouth. That creates a air passage that resonates the air in your lungs which creates that sensation.