New sub for 10x10 music room?

[otto2008]

Hi all-

Currently running Yamaha RX 700 receiver, w/ Polk monitor 40s and a BIC f12 sub for a 4.1 system

I feel like the BIC is working in this room no matter how i tune or place it. It'd a small room but looking for a better sub for about $400.

RSL Speedwoofer, Dayton 1500 , and possibly SVS pb 1000??

Thanks !

 

[lovinthehd]

How about a second F12?

 

[yepimonfire]

Hi all-

Currently running Yamaha RX 700 receiver, w/ Polk monitor 40s and a BIC f12 sub for a 4.1 system

I feel like the BIC is working in this room no matter how i tune or place it. It'd a small room but looking for a better sub for about $400.

RSL Speedwoofer, Dayton 1500 , and possibly SVS pb 1000??

Thanks !

The dayton 1500 goes deeper, plays louder, and measures flatter than the f12. I find it's very musical. I can switch back and forth between my much more expensive Klipsch RP-160m speakers (flat to about 35hz in my room) in direct mode with no xover and the sub 1500 crossed at 60hz and hear no change in the quality and accuracy of the bass when listening to music.

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[ryanosaur]

Square rooms are rough. Depending on what you've done for set up, i'd explore keeping that sub for now but making certain you have it placed in the best spot in your room! If you haven't, experiment with the Subwoofer Crawl, first. There's a video here, as well as others you can find with a quick google search.
First, keep your mind, and your ears open when you do it! I learned a lot about my room acoustics and low frequency soundwaves while I did it. I tried with pink noise, test tones, and a really good bass track... it took me several crawls around the room before I started to hear it all, but you will. I had a corner that didn't just amplify the sound (premise behind corner loading) but it also got super boomy and muddy sounding. Not there! I found a spot on the back wall where the bass just flat out died. Not there! Fortunately, my side walls had long stretches where I could consider placement that allowed the bass to sound like I wanted. Clear and real. Some people will say that in just the right spot, you'll get an extra punch and tightness out of it.
You do not need to put it on your seat, just move your seat out of the way a little if possible and put the sub in your LP. You can put it in your seat... either way, won't hurt anything but maybe your fine leather chair.
Try to find 2 or three spots where the bass sounds good and mark them with tape. Switch the sub to that position, go back to your LP and see how it sounds. It should sound the same!
Regardless, it a crude way, but it might help the problem a little.
I said keep your mind open, because you might find the best place is right behind or beside your LP.

Beyond that, How tall is your ceiling? And is your room closed off or open to other areas? Low frequencies work on room volume rather than distance, so if that 10x10 room is open to another area, your dealing with a much larger volume than you realize.

Fotgot to add... the reason for multiple subs... especially in a square room, is that the way the soundwaves move, you start to get cancelations... voids, nodes, deadspots. Multiple subs, placed smartly, will work to even that out and give you better response.

 

[otto2008]

The dayton 1500 goes deeper, plays louder, and measures flatter than the f12. I find it's very musical. I can switch back and forth between my much more expensive Klipsch RP-160m speakers (flat to about 35hz in my room) in direct mode with no xover and the sub 1500 crossed at 60hz and hear no change in the quality and accuracy of the bass when listening to music.

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would i use the both or just use the dayton??

 

[ryanosaur]

when you use multiple subs, you want them to be the same.

 

[ryanosaur]

mismatching subs from one to the other can cause a whole slew of other problems. It can be done, but requires more technical know-how and understanding of acoustics.

Please answer for the room questions! How tall is your ceiling and is it open to other areas?

 

[m3incorp]

The Daytons are cheap enough that you can get two within the budget you stated.

If you were in GA, I have a 2 week old one that I bought, just to see how they sound.

 

[otto2008]

when you use multiple subs, you want them to be the same.

when you use multiple subs, you want them to be the same.

Room 10x10 with just a door and a small bump out for closet, i have some pictures hanging...if that helps at all , plus space is a bit of an issue, so thats y i though of the rsl..

 

[otto2008]

mismatching subs from one to the other can cause a whole slew of other problems. It can be done, but requires more technical know-how and understanding of acoustics.

Please answer for the room questions! How tall is your ceiling and is it open to other areas?

Room 10x10 with just a door and a small bump out for closet, i have some pictures hanging...if that helps at all , plus space is a bit of an issue, so thats y i though of the rsl..

 

[otto2008]

mismatching subs from one to the other can cause a whole slew of other problems. It can be done, but requires more technical know-how and understanding of acoustics.

Please answer for the room questions! How tall is your ceiling and is it open to other areas?

Room 10x10 with just a door and a small bump out for closet, i have some pictures hanging...if that helps at all , plus space is a bit of an issue, so thats y i though of the rsl..

 

[ryanosaur]

OK, so assuming you have standard 8' ceilings, you're under 1000'3. It's not a lot of space and you don't need to do anything super crazy in terms of bigger subs.

But in the RSL thread post, @shadyJ pretty much gave you the same advice... you need to look at multiple matching subs.

 

[otto2008]

OK, so assuming you have standard 8'' ceilings, you're under 1000'3. It's not a lot of space and you don't need to do anything super crazy in terms of bigger subs.

But in the RSL thread post, @shadyJ pretty much gave you the same advice... you need to look at multiple matching subs.

ok thanks for the help , i would love to bring up my PSAXV30fse from dowstairs but,,, lol,,,thx again !

 

[ryanosaur]

If you can move the sub, you might find immediate FREE improvement. If you find 2 or three locations where you hear an improvement using the crawl, and you put a second matching sub in that other location, you will get drastic improvement. By exciting multiple room modes, you will start to overcome the standing waves where your bass sound is dying.

ok thanks for the help , i would love to bring up my PSAXV30fse from dowstairs but,,, lol,,,thx again !

You're welcome!

I hope this helps. Bass can be finicky.

 

[otto2008]

If you can move the sub, you might find immediate FREE improvement. If you find 2 or three locations where you hear an improvement using the crawl, and you put a second matching sub in that other location, you will get drastic improvement. By exciting multiple room modes, you will start to overcome the standing waves where your bass sound is dying.



You're welcome!

I hope this helps. Bass can be finicky.

sorry so to end this, add another BIC or try for the 2 Daytons???. i will sub crawl as well...

Thx

-Joe

 

[ryanosaur]

sorry so to end this, add another BIC or try for the 2 Daytons???. i will sub crawl as well...

Thx

-Joe

Start with the crawl and see what you learn about your room... and if you find a spot or two that the bass sounds better... add 1 more BIC, sure. If you think the BIC still isn't enough sub after you crawl but before you buy another... you can go bigger/better/stronger, whether its the dayton or the RSL. If you decide that you want to switch away from the BIC, I would start another thread for specific input on the options. There are some good ones out there that might work great for you. And just like above, you'll get some suggestions that you can research.

Output, extension, size... Each subwoofer will have its tradeoffs. Your room is dictating the acoustics, and you don't need crazy output for that space. Therefore, extension and size are the things that seem more at play for you... and cost, and fitting 2 into that room!

 

[yepimonfire]

Didn't OP say though the Bic sounds good everywhere he places it? Generally, square rooms are awful, but flexible walls can definitely change that. Unless your room is made of concrete or hard plaster, it's generally a crapshoot what will happen. The dayton 1500 is large no doubt, but for a $200 subwoofer, it digs deep and get very very loud even in a medium to large room.

If you like how the single f12 sounds, and it really does sound good all around the room, go for a single 1500. If you have bass problems, you'd be better off using multiple smaller subs placed strategically around the room, in fact, four subs directly at each wall midpoint would do a good job cancelling out most of the bass problems.

You didn't say what genre of music you mostly listen to, but that will ultimately dictate how much extension you need. A majority of music doesn't reach much below 35-40hz, hence why I notice no difference bypassing my sub and using just my speakers, so in some cases, extension is less important.

The sub 1200 is literally just a smaller version of the 1500, and depending on the room, will reach 25hz vs 23hz for the 1500, two of them would cost you $300, and combined would have the same or larger surface area and power of the 1500.

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[lovinthehd]

Didn't OP say though the Bic sounds good everywhere he places it? Generally, square rooms are awful, but flexible walls can definitely change that. Unless your room is made of concrete or hard plaster, it's generally a crapshoot what will happen. The dayton 1500 is large no doubt, but for a $200 subwoofer, it digs deep and get very very loud even in a medium to large room.

If you like how the single f12 sounds, and it really does sound good all around the room, go for a single 1500. If you have bass problems, you'd be better off using multiple smaller subs placed strategically around the room, in fact, four subs directly at each wall midpoint would do a good job cancelling out most of the bass problems.

You didn't say what genre of music you mostly listen to, but that will ultimately dictate how much extension you need. A majority of music doesn't reach much below 35-40hz, hence why I notice no difference bypassing my sub and using just my speakers, so in some cases, extension is less important.

The sub 1200 is literally just a smaller version of the 1500, and depending on the room, will reach 25hz vs 23hz for the 1500, two of them would cost you $300, and combined would have the same or larger surface area and power of the 1500.

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In another thread he indicated he's having issues, this is a second thread. I think he meant to put "not" in the phrase about the BIC sub working....

 

[yepimonfire]

Ah. That makes more sense.

I can say from experience with my 12x11 room, more subs definitely is the way to go. If your budget is stuck at a ceiling of $400, 4 sub 1000s each at the middle point of each wall is what I'd do. They have useful output down to 30hz, and are -3dB at 35hz. If you could push it to $600, four sub 1200s would get you more extension, and iirc, the boxes are a bit smaller than the f12.

If you place a sub at each wall mid point, they will destructively interfere with each other's excitation of room modes, nearly solving the problem.

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[ryanosaur]

There are a lot of potential solutions, but the one thing we seem to easily do is forget to look at the most basic first. Learning about sound is the most fundamental way we can improve our systems... sometimes for free.

Yepimonfire, I both agree and disagree with you... friendly, though! I prefer the non-symmetrical Geddes-style placement more, as opposed to symmetrical. And my limited understanding is that you want to excite as many room MODES as possible to even out the bass response. That's, at least to my understanding, how you overcome cancellation from standing waves. If I am wrong, please help me understand better. I came to this forum to learn, afterall.

And for all the cool cats that have helped me, I now want to be able to guide others along the path to audio bliss!

Cheers!