The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

Bookmark

Bookmark

Full Audioholic
Well there are pluses and minuses with all of them, mostly in the endings.Some scenes change and the Director and Extended are about 4-5 minutes longer, so not a big deal. However the UHD, should I would have thought, had them. They are on the Dvds and Blurays, I actually have both formats:eek:.
 
Bookmark

Bookmark

Full Audioholic
Just for the record.:rolleyes:

Blade Runner has 6 different versions (7 if you include the workprint) and here the Theatrical is the best one with the voice over by Harrison. Which I saw in the cinema back in the day. :eek:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Blade_Runner
Waterworld SE, if I ever get, AWOL crimbo present, has 3 versions, the best being the Ulysses cut, a lot more Dennis Hopper. :D
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114898/alternateversions
Terminator 2 has at least 3 versions, best to avoid the one with Arnie try to tell jokes. :confused:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103064/alternateversions
Aliens has at least 2 version and overall the extras are worthwhile aside from Ripley backstory about her long dead daughter. However this is probably the only one of the Franchise that benefits.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/alternateversions
All the Hobbits and LOTR have an extended cut. These are all usually the better versions, in particular The Return of the King which in the cinema removed Christopher Lee entirely.:p
Kingdom of Heaven has 2, possibly 3 either of which are much better and make a lot more sense than the original.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320661/alternateversions
Gladiator has two but honestly it is just really more of the same. This by the way used to be my goto for surround panning with the first gladiator fight in Spain just before the gate opens.
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=2462
Original Star Wars now really only has one, but it is still possibly to get the actual original HAN SHOOTS FIRST, Lucas. :mad: Cleaning up the composites and most of the CGI is fine particularly in the Empire Strikes Back.
A Good Day to Die Hard, (aka Die Hard 5) has 2 and the uncut is obviously the better choice also has it happens a serious amount of bass.:p
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1606378/alternateversions

We have all of these on Dvd and Bluray, even in some cases VHS as well.o_O So should I ever get the UHDs these will have to be included for me to consider them, Atmos or not.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
I've had 4 ceiling speakers in a box in my theater for months just because I don't want to cut 4 5" holes and dirty up the place.

My current "on ceiling" sound great, but the real speakers will be an improvement.
What makes you think "in ceiling" will sound better? The angles are all that matters. I'd say it's a given that "in ceiling" will LOOK better, but that's not the same thing. The actual speaker and its ability to either aim towards the listening position (or have really great off-axis response) is what really matters. Many in-ceiling designs have their own issues (e.g. Make sure the tweeters can aim and the on-axis patterns are good) (Department stores and offices often have in-ceiling speakers and I don't recall anyone ever claiming department they sound 'great').

I know a guy on AVS that has a high-end Trinnov system with like 19 speakers or so and he used high-end PSB for the mains and Imagine Bs for floor surrounds and PSB CS1000 "outdoor" speakers for his on-ceiling speakers. I'm sure he could have gone for in-ceiling (PSB did make some you can still get), but he liked the specs on the CS1000. I ended up going for the CS500, mostly for clearance reasons and the fact the main difference is in bass response and they're not going to play that low anyway so it seemed moot for that use). I settled for lesser floor mains speakers as well, but PSB's high-end is mostly about the cabinet finish anyway (very small difference in sound by comparison, IMO as they're mostly all rated +/- 1dB already). The CS500 is an Imagine B in a hanger outdoor case. The X1T is the smaller of the two tower sizes (I use them for rear height/bed accordingly). I'd still love to hear his system some day to compare. I'm sure that Trinnov does some interesting things with remapping.
 
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VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Just for the record.:rolleyes:

Blade Runner has 6 different versions (7 if you include the workprint) and here the Theatrical is the best one with the voice over by Harrison. Which I saw in the cinema back in the day. :eek:
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that preferred the cinema version with the voice-overs (most seemed to hate them, some perhaps just because Ridley Scott detested them?). I love Bogart movies and the voice-over just felt like an old detective noir movie to me. "Future Noir" perhaps? Without them, the movie seems perhaps a bit too slow in some places. Blade Runner 2049 has been accused of being too slow in pace, but for some reason I didn't mind so much there (maybe because I love watching Ana de Armas so much. That Joi blue-hair version of her...HOT. I bought a movie poster with that on it I liked it so much and I don't think it was an official one :D)

The problem with the voice-over original, though is that you lose the Atmos soundtrack and it's a pretty darn good one for an older movie! I tried Neural X on the originals and it was a decent upgrade, but it wasn't in the same realm as the Atmos soundtrack. They clearly didn't just move sounds to the ceiling. They improved imaging in all the surround speakers and dynamic range, etc. as well. There's clearly a few noisy bit flaws carried over, but hell it's from 1982.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
What makes you think "in ceiling" will sound better? The angles are all that matters. I'd say it's a given that "in ceiling" will LOOK better, but that's not the same thing. The actual speaker and its ability to either aim towards the listening position (or have really great off-axis response) is what really matters. Many in-ceiling designs have their own issues (e.g. Make sure the tweeters can aim and the on-axis patterns are good) (Department stores and offices often have in-ceiling speakers and I don't recall anyone ever claiming department they sound 'great').
Oh I'm sure they'll sound better. They are voice matched to the rest of the currently installed 7 channel system. That and what I'm using are near field speakers from an old Cambridge Soundworks speaker system I got for my PC 20 years ago. Have to think their off axis response is horrible compared to what's in the box waiting to be installed.



If not, I'm gonna be PISSED...granted, those little guys sound shockingly good for what they are.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Oh I'm sure they'll sound better. They are voice matched to the rest of the currently installed 7 channel system. That and what I'm using are near field speakers from an old Cambridge Soundworks speaker system I got for my PC 20 years ago. Have to think their off axis response is horrible compared to what's in the box waiting to be installed.



If not, I'm gonna be PISSED...granted, those little guys sound shockingly good for what they are.
Well, that certainly makes more sense, but I wouldn't be totally shocked (I'm not at all familiar with SpeakerCraft). The overheads are fairly bandwidth limited. I hooked some Klipsch 2.1 speakers (designed to be computer speakers, but I found them GREAT in a bedroom sized room) to my Carver system as surround speakers, mounted behind my chair and aimed at the walls with the sub back there behind me and I was literally shocked how well they integrated in terms of a neutral timbre and how well the "bounce reflection" increased their apparent image size (and take up very little space in the room and don't make a big eye sore). I've thought about adding another set pointed backwards to bounce off the rear wall behind the stair case to get 6.2 (I don't have a center speaker currently as none really match the Carver ribbons close enough; I added the surrounds on a whim since I had an extra set I used for video editing that aren't used anymore and an extra old Technics outboard DD decoder and thought I'd just hear what they sounded like as I do often watch TV shows (sometimes movies like comedies or SD content since the TV is only a 48" wall mounted plasma)

I originally set the room up as music-only combo living room and later recording studio (Macbook on top of my Roland digital piano with my two guitars on stands in the corners and a PreSonus box to capture at 24/96 plus a mic (closeup Berhinger model) and stand. I made a rock album with all digital in save the acoustic guitar and vocals; All I can say is that Logic Pro ROCKS. It's unreal what you can do by yourself these days. I felt like Billy Idol making Cyberpunk or Trent Reznor making Pretty Hate Machine, although my music is closer to PInk Floyd)
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Well, that certainly makes more sense, but I wouldn't be totally shocked (I'm not at all familiar with SpeakerCraft). The overheads are fairly bandwidth limited. I hooked some Klipsch 2.1 speakers (designed to be computer speakers, but I found them GREAT in a bedroom sized room) to my Carver system as surround speakers, mounted behind my chair and aimed at the walls with the sub back there behind me and I was literally shocked how well they integrated in terms of a neutral timbre and how well the "bounce reflection" increased their apparent image size (and take up very little space in the room and don't make a big eye sore). I've thought about adding another set pointed backwards to bounce off the rear wall behind the stair case to get 6.2 (I don't have a center speaker currently as none really match the Carver ribbons close enough; I added the surrounds on a whim since I had an extra set I used for video editing that aren't used anymore and an extra old Technics outboard DD decoder and thought I'd just hear what they sounded like as I do often watch TV shows (sometimes movies like comedies or SD content since the TV is only a 48" wall mounted plasma)

I originally set the room up as music-only combo living room and later recording studio (Macbook on top of my Roland digital piano with my two guitars on stands in the corners and a PreSonus box to capture at 24/96 plus a mic (closeup Berhinger model) and stand. I made a rock album with all digital in save the acoustic guitar and vocals; All I can say is that Logic Pro ROCKS. It's unreal what you can do by yourself these days. I felt like Billy Idol making Cyberpunk or Trent Reznor making Pretty Hate Machine, although my music is closer to PInk Floyd)
With them being used (and apparently developed primarily) for Atmos overheads I'm not too worried about the bandwidth. They have a line array tweeter setup that supposedly diffuses the sound for Atmos better, but who knows. The current in-walls I have from them are fantastic. I'm really pleased with them and I'd never thought I'd say that about an in-wall setup.

I've got a set of their 8" ceiling speakers in my living room and they are shockingly good for the money I spent. Loads of bass too. I just need to find time to get into my attic and build some boxes around them so half the sound doesn't escape into the attic. Not an issue with the ones in the theater, they've got built in boxes around them.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
After hearing how awesome the Atmos track of "Edge of Tomorrow" is by the sound engineer who did the mix, we better be getting the UHD Atmos Blu-ray of this movie this year!

 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Was that in Atmos at the theater or is that done just for an upcoming 4K release? Edge of Tomorrow here is 7.1 for both 2D and 3D. I don't think I've watched it since I redid my home theater's sound system, though.

I did watch Kong: Skull Island 3D in Atmos and Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children 3D in 7.1 upmixed with Neural X and both were excellent. The latter sounded like it was Atmos (all kinds of things overhead). I know there's a 4K version that has Atmos, but Neural X did so well, I'm wondering if it would even make much of an improvement.

It seems like titles that are mixed in Atmos, but then downmixed for 5.1 or 7.1 versions seem to upmix with Neural X much better in many cases than titles that never had immersive mixes made at the time. I'm guessing the cues are still there in phase or whatever Neural X looks for to upmix and restores most of it even without the object data (I assume folded down the panning is simply mixed into the channels too; complex pans between sets of speakers might not work for like 5.1 (panning between rear and middle locations, etc.),but 7.1 would probably be much closer.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Was that in Atmos at the theater or is that done just for an upcoming 4K release?

It seems like titles that are mixed in Atmos, but then downmixed for 5.1 or 7.1 versions seem to upmix with Neural X much better in many cases than titles that never had immersive mixes made at the time.
Good question. I was hoping they were talking about the home Atmos, but I’m not sure. :D

That makes sense about the upmix. @Bookmark and I were comparing scene per scene on “The Equalizer”. He used NeuralX and I used Atmos. He felt as if he were listening to Atmos. So NeuralX did a superb job upmixing.
 
Bookmark

Bookmark

Full Audioholic
I was hoping they were talking about the home Atmo
I did a check on the Atmos site and there is no indication that it was in the cinema in Atmos, oddly all the hobbits were, as far back as 2012.:confused: So this would indicate that it could be for the home. :)

. @Bookmark and I were comparing scene per scene on “The Equalizer”. He used NeuralX and I used Atmos.
Too kind, however your's is correctly setup, laid out and worthy of the many photographs I have seen. :DMine is where I could get them in roughly the right spots and decades from being ready for a close up. o_O

I thought we concluded on EQ 1, that you were able to spot a number of differences between the Atmos and the upmix, but that my compromised setup gave me sort of the Atmos result out of it. I know we do largely agree on what does and doesn't work, at least on the Atmos :) and usually on the up mixes.:p I will just skip over the comments on the Dts:X ones. :eek: I had thought I might use DSU more often, however perhaps due to laziness, I have mostly stuck with the Neural X.

I did notice The House with a Clock in the Walls is out in the US in Atmos, Dts HD for the UK. :rolleyes: Up mixed it sounded fine with a lot of effects, but it really isn't one to rush out and watch.

Just for fun, :eek:and so to not to be completely out done by Andy and Magnum,:p I am planning on adding another pair of speakers and try out 7.1.6.o_O It is a mad idea and I am not sure it will work this way, but since the Marantz already handles the overheads I am thinking if I add an mid overhead to that setup I might get away without using the channel mixers that Andy and Magnum use. ;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Just for fun, :eek:and so to not to be completely out done by Andy and Magnum,:p I am planning on adding another pair of speakers and try out 7.1.6.o_O
I gave up trying to keep up with Andy, Magnum, and Theo. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Only place that has it with Atmos is Vudu. Scroll down to the bottom and it's an available audio format.
I read on one of the forums regarding Edge of Tomorrow Atmos on Vudu. It seems like some people were having problems getting the Atmos signal, although they got the 4K video fine.

Gotta be patient and wait for the 4K/Atmos BD to be released. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
That will be my fault for forgetting which year it was released. :oops:
You thought "Edge" was released in 2012, didn't you? :D

Warner Bros better have something special planned for Edge of Tomorrow 4K/Atmos for making us wait so long!
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
You thought "Edge" was released in 2012, didn't you? :D

Warner Bros better have something special planned for Edge of Tomorrow 4K/Atmos for making us wait so long!
Will be interesting if the bass changes on EOT or is the same. Some people have claimed the bass was mixed too hot by mistake. :)

I also believe the bass was stronger on the Master and Commander DVD than the Blu-ray.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Will be interesting if the bass changes on EOT or is the same. Some people have claimed the bass was mixed too hot by mistake. :)
If it's a mistake, then it's one of few examples in life where the "mistake" is good. :D

Bring it on! :eek:
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
You can switch fairly easily between Neural X and Atmos, at least on a Marantz AVR. I was comparing scenes in Red Tails between various Auro-3D configs (extracted top middle, regular surround height and duplicated surround/rear height plus Neural X upmixing). With a remux 3D disc, I can swap Atmos and Auro-3D as well at the push of a button.
 
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