Monolith by Monoprice HTP-1 16 Channel Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Home Theater Processor w/Dirac & Alexa Compatibility

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After 200k in gear you dont know I'm sure you have the dealer sheets lol

Well, school me then.

Does a "FULLY Balanced" pre-pro require "DOUBLE Differential" = 4 Channels of DAC per Channel like the Denon AVP-A1HDCI?

9CH needs 36Ch of DAC.

So the Center Channel gets 4Ch of DAC, the Front Left gets 4 Channels of DAC?

And if each channel gets 2 Channels of DAC, then this is just "Single Differential" and does not qualify for "FULLY BALANCED"?

 

[everettT]

Well, school me then.

Does a "FULLY Balanced" pre-pro require "DOUBLE Differential" = 4 Channels of DAC per Channel like the Denon AVP-A1HDCI?

9CH needs 36Ch of DAC.

So the Center Channel gets 4Ch of DAC, the Front Left gets 4 Channels of DAC?

And if each channel gets 2 Channels of DAC, then this is just "Single Differential" and does not qualify for "FULLY BALANCED"?

I was just playing with ya, I have no idea about the specs yet

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I was just playing with ya, I have no idea about the specs yet

I asked Gene to clarify this circuit design and we can report back soon, hows that. I already told you how i think it works, but since he’s the engineer, I’ll let his expertise carry the day.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Sorry the “you” was pointed at @AcuDefTechGuy not @everettT as we were having a side conversation about this.

Basically I think I understand this but don’t have the technical background to be absolutely sure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In comparison, I also just asked Yamaha Technical Support the question:

How many channels of DAC does the Yamaha CX-A5200 have total?

The CX-A5200 has 13 Channels (11 speakers + 2 subs).

Does it have 13 channels of DAC or 26 channels of DAC or ?

 

[M Code]

In comparison, I also just asked Yamaha Technical Support the question:

How many channels of DAC does the Yamaha CX-A5200 have total?

The CX-A5200 has 13 Channels (11 speakers + 2 subs).

Does it have 13 channels of DAC or 26 channels of DAC or ?

CX-A5200 uses (2) ES9026PRO SABRE DACs, their specs are 32-bit, 8-channel ESS specs are 124dB dynamic range, -110dB (THD +N)..
Here is a link to its spec page...
http://www.esstech.com/files/9814/5193/1789/ES9028PRO__ES9026PRO_Product_Brief_121615.pdf

Just my $0.02..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

CX-A5200 uses (2) ES9026PRO SABRE DACs, their specs are 32-bit, 8-channel ESS specs are 124dB dynamic range, -110dB (THD +N)..

Just my $0.02..

So the Yamaha pre-pro has a total of 16Ch of DAC for 13 Channels? No other DACs on board?

I assume that it only uses 13 Channels of DAC for the 13 Channels?

Which means it's not differential, which would require 26 Channels of DAC for the 13 Channels..

 

[Matthew J Poes]

So the Yamaha pre-pro has a total of 16Ch of DAC for 13 Channels? No other DACs on board?

I assume that it only uses 13 Channels of DAC for the 13 Channels?

Which means it's not differential, which would require 26 Channels of DAC for the 13 Channels..

Also possible that the front 3 channels are operated in true differential mode and doubles the DACs on those channels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Also possible that the front 3 channels are operated in true differential mode and doubles the DACs on those channels.

Good point. It does have XLR balanced Front Right and Front Left Inputs.

So I suppose the Front L/R could be differential (4Ch-DACs for 2 Ch) + 11Ch-DACs for the remaining 11 Ch (non-differential) = 15Ch DAC total.

3 CH differential would be 6Ch-DAC + 10Ch-DAC for remaining 10Ch = 16Ch of DAC.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Ok @gene responded. My basic understanding was correct, though he indicated that the term does have specific meaning.

Ok so a differential balanced circuit only requires two mono dacs, each operated in antiphase to each other. You would then have positive phase, negative phase, and ground on a balanced connection. This canceled differential noise, but does nothing to lower the noise and distortion of the DAC.

Paralleling DAC's lower the noise and distortion of a DAC by about 40%, or so they say. There is a good argument to be made that we are talking about going from inaudible distortion to further inaudible distortion. Same with noise. Still, who doesn't like a technical marvel, in which the noise and distortion exceed any chance of being audible?

So in the case of the Denon processor that Gene tested, that unit uses a very high quality BurrBrown DAC in dual differential mode, which meant in this case that each phase bank had a pair of paralleled dacs. This ensures the lowest possible noise.

Gene made mention of some products operating in quad differential mode which, in that case, likely means 4 dac's paralleled together for the lowest possible noise and distortion organized in a differential pair with another quad block.

So I guess what we want to know about the Monoprice at this point is how many dac's per channel are used and how are they setup. The top of the line Datasatuses four of the best DAC's in existence per channel in this "dual differential" mode. a pair of paralleled dacs per phase per channel.

I can't wait to find out what is in this Monoprice. My guess is something not as fancy, it would probably be too expensive. The BB DAC used in the top Datasat is largely only used in pro audio gear. I don't think it's used in any consumer gear, but that may be wrong.

 

[gene]

Update from Monoprice: 1/10/19 !!!

I just got an email from my contact at Monoprice. The HTP-1 will support Auro-3D. So for $4k you get a 16CH processor that supports all 3 immersive surround formats!

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Update from Monoprice: 1/10/19 !!!

I just got an email from my contact at Monoprice. The HTP-1 will support Auro-3D. So for $4k you get a 16CH processor that supports all 3 immersive surround formats!

That really is impressive.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nice to have, but are there any Auro3D movies available at Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart or other retailers in the USA?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Nice to have, but are there any Auro3D movies available at Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart or other retailers in the USA?

Details details!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ok @gene responded. My basic understanding was correct, though he indicated that the term does have specific meaning.

Ok so a differential balanced circuit only requires two mono dacs, each operated in antiphase to each other. You would then have positive phase, negative phase, and ground on a balanced connection. This canceled differential noise, but does nothing to lower the noise and distortion of the DAC.

Paralleling DAC's lower the noise and distortion of a DAC by about 40%, or so they say. There is a good argument to be made that we are talking about going from inaudible distortion to further inaudible distortion. Same with noise. Still, who doesn't like a technical marvel, in which the noise and distortion exceed any chance of being audible?

So in the case of the Denon processor that Gene tested, that unit uses a very high quality BurrBrown DAC in dual differential mode, which meant in this case that each phase bank had a pair of paralleled dacs. This ensures the lowest possible noise.

Gene made mention of some products operating in quad differential mode which, in that case, likely means 4 dac's paralleled together for the lowest possible noise and distortion organized in a differential pair with another quad block.

So I guess what we want to know about the Monoprice at this point is how many dac's per channel are used and how are they setup. The top of the line Datasatuses four of the best DAC's in existence per channel in this "dual differential" mode. a pair of paralleled dacs per phase per channel.

I can't wait to find out what is in this Monoprice. My guess is something not as fancy, it would probably be too expensive. The BB DAC used in the top Datasat is largely only used in pro audio gear. I don't think it's used in any consumer gear, but that may be wrong.

Differential = 2 Channels of DAC per Channel. So a 16CH pre-pro has 32 Channels of DAC.

Dual or Double Differential = 4 Channels of DAC per Channel. So a 16CH pre-pro has 64 Channels of DAC.

Quad Differential = 8 Channels of DAC per Channel. So. 16CH pre-pro would have 128 Channels of DAC.

I have word from ATI that the Theta Digital Casablanca pre-pro (ATI owned) has 4 Channels of DAC per Channel.

They will ask if any of the DataSAT pre-pro has 4 Channels of DAC per Channel.

I have confirmation from Yamaha that the CX-A5200 has 1 Channel of DAC per Channel. The Main Zone 13 Channels get 13 Channels of DAC. Zone 2 or Zone 3 gets 2 Channels of DAC. So a total of 15 Channels of DAC are used.

Now, are we concluding that to be FULLY BALANCED, the pre-pro needs to be at least DUAL Differential from DAC stage (4 or more DAC Channels per Channel) to Output ?

That single differential, instead of double differential, does NOT qualify for FULLY BALANCED?

Or are we saying that FULLY BALANCED only needs to be single differential or 2 Channels of DAC per Channel?

So the Monolith 16Ch pre-pro only needs to have 32 Channels of DAC to be FULLY BALANCED?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Differential = 2 Channels of DAC per Channel. So a 16CH pre-pro has 32 Channels of DAC.

Dual or Double Differential = 4 Channels of DAC per Channel. So a 16CH pre-pro has 64 Channels of DAC.

Quad Differential = 8 Channels of DAC per Channel. So. 16CH pre-pro would have 128 Channels of DAC.

I have word from ATI that the Theta Digital Casablanca pre-pro (ATI owned) has 4 Channels of DAC per Channel.

They will ask if any of the DataSAT pre-pro has 4 Channels of DAC per Channel.

I have confirmation from Yamaha that the CX-A5200 has 1 Channel of DAC per Channel. The Main Zone 13 Channels get 13 Channels of DAC. Zone 2 or Zone 3 gets 2 Channels of DAC. So a total of 15 Channels of DAC are used.

Now, are we concluding that to be FULLY BALANCED, the pre-pro needs to be at least DUAL Differential from DAC stage (4 or more DAC Channels per Channel) to Output ?

That single differential, instead of double differential, does NOT qualify for FULLY BALANCED?

Or are we saying that FULLY BALANCED only needs to be single differential or 2 Channels of DAC per Channel?

So the Monolith 16Ch pre-pro only needs to have 32 Channels of DAC to be FULLY BALANCED?

What I’ve concluded is that you guys need to get a life.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

What I’ve concluded is that you guys need to get a life.

But .001% thd is not good enough, I need it to be .0008%. I need that veil of grunge lifted from my system.

On another forum we are discussing tweeter types. I was saying that I am not a fan of any one kind of tweeter per say. That I’ve heard and measured good and bad across the spectrum and it’s the final product that matters.

That one has devolved into an arguement over tweeter distortion that I now must bow out of because it is so misguided.

No denying that specmandhip can be a fun endeavor but also a terrible waste of time.

 

[Irvrobinson]

But .001% thd is not good enough, I need it to be .0008%. I need that veil of grunge lifted from my system.

On another forum we are discussing tweeter types. I was saying that I am not a fan of any one kind of tweeter per say. That I’ve heard and measured good and bad across the spectrum and it’s the final product that matters.

That one has devolved into an arguement over tweeter distortion that I now must bow out of because it is so misguided.

No denying that specmandhip can be a fun endeavor but also a terrible waste of time.

Oh, I totally understand how one can get lost in a discussion. I'm the damned fool who started a discussion about the foolishness of Alnico magnets in a thread about HDMI on a laptop. I should get a prize for that tangent.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What I’ve concluded is that you guys need to get a life.

Well, actually we don’t just have “a life”; we have multiple lives .

1. Work life
2. Home life
3. Audioholics life

There are aspects of my work like that I don’t care to talk about at home or on Audioholics.

There are aspects of my home life that I don’t care to talk about at work or on Audioholics.

And there are aspects of my Audioholics life that I don’t care to talk about at work or at home.

I’m sure some of us may have 2 or 3 home lives.

 

[Danzilla31]

Well, actually we don’t just have “a life”; we have multiple lives .

1. Work life
2. Home life
3. Audioholics life

There are aspects of my work like that I don’t care to talk about at home or on Audioholics.

There are aspects of my home life that I don’t care to talk about at work or on Audioholics.

And there are aspects of my Audioholics life that I don’t care to talk about at work or at home.

I’m sure some of us may have 2 or 3 home lives.

All my lines are just subsets to my true life. The audioholic one! Woooow were really getting deep on this thread now. This is some existential stuff guys! My head hurts er I mean I'm learning so much with every post now!