B-M-WOW! A tribute to the BMR, and my journey to them..

[Danzilla31]

Ha! If this was in the main room, the Lady would be losing her sh!t. She couldn't handle the green lights on the APC power strip I use for the rig.
But, bright is relative... I've seen blue led power lights that hurt to look at. This isn't that bad... just wish I could differentiate between Standby and On more easily.

Seriously tho that is a beautiful setup congratulations!

I do have some constructive feedback related to your post about speaker diffractions.

Since you hardly use it for movies and TV why not mount the TV higher.

Putting that beautiful speaker on its side as a center channel is speaker abuse!

This way you can have all 3 upright for the front 3 channels L C R they would sound gorgeous that way and the TV is farther up and away reducing your diffraction concern

 

[snakeeyes]

How wide is that room? Do you have enough space to spread out the front three speakers? ie, move the left and right out some, and then toe-in if desired? As is, they're awfully close together.

Also, are those VTI stands? How tall?

Congrats on the speakers. They're very impressive.

I agree about spreading the mains out. Think maybe 7 or 8 ft from each other if it fits in his room. It’s all huddled too close together.

 

[Danzilla31]

I agree about spreading the mains out. Think maybe 7 or 8 ft from each other if it fits in his room. It’s all huddled too close together.

Gotta second or third that idea as well! And once again @ryanosaur it will help your concern with diffraction from the TV!

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Ha! If this was in the main room, the Lady would be losing her sh!t. She couldn't handle the green lights on the APC power strip I use for the rig.
But, bright is relative... I've seen blue led power lights that hurt to look at. This isn't that bad... just wish I could differentiate between Standby and On more easily.

Heh I think the blue LED on my first pair of Logitech computer speakers was so bright that it had to be taped over. I can at least look at my Outlaws in a dark room without pain.

BTW were those Radio Shack Linaeum speakers in that "before" pic?

 

[ryanosaur]

Heh I think the blue LED on my first pair of Logitech computer speakers was so bright that it had to be taped over. I can at least look at my Outlaws in a dark room without pain.

BTW were those Radio Shack Linaeum speakers in that "before" pic?

DING_DING_DING! yes on both counts!
My old logitech 2.1 set had that blue laser of vision doom too!
And yes, Optimus Pro LX5. Bought those back in... '95?, I wanna say.

 

[ryanosaur]

If you do it right, you won't even really notice it.

I even have a white router, I just used a single piece of black electrical tape longer than I needed, wrapped it around the sides, it just looks like a piece of plastic trim unless you are right up inspecting it. I have even fooled cable service techs when they say "none of your lights are lit".

I have also had pretty good success to dim lights some with either black or metallic grey nail polish.

I had thought about something like this before... maybe the gray or frost, depending on how intense the light is.
https://www.amazon.com/Transparent-Vinyl-Tape-Self-Adhesive-Light/dp/B01N4TL6WC

 

[ryanosaur]

Putting that beautiful speaker on its side as a center channel is speaker abuse!

Dennis builds it that way! He suggested it to me when I asked about voice matching BMRs with the MTM Center he does. And since I've got a silly insistence on 3-way front speakers, I was all over this from the get go!

 

[snakeeyes]

Dennis builds it that way! He suggested it to me when I asked about voice matching BMRs with the MTM Center he does. And since I've got a silly insistence on 3-way front speakers, I was all over this from the get go!

Some horizontal haters, eh? . Your BMR is not a MTM design.

The concern on horizontal MTM is when there are 2 mid woofers covering the same frequency range, the phenomenon of lobing can occur which some people may notice or not... I’m not sure if that is why a BMR was recommended by Dennis over the Phil MTM center??

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Hey @ryanosaur this looks great. I think others already gave you advice on this, but you can solve most of the diffraction problem by simply moving the Left and right speaker farther away and into the room. I suspect they will cast a larger soundstage and generally sound better if you can sit a decent distance back with them a good bit apart.

Having the center like that will inevitably cause diffraction. There is no solution to that if you must have them setup this way. The solution would be to have your equipment rack somewhere else and the center in a proper speaker stand. You can line the area around the center speaker with acoustic foam. It’s imperfect but viable.

Can you take measurements?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Here is an example of what I mean:

 

[ryanosaur]

How wide is that room? Do you have enough space to spread out the front three speakers? ie, move the left and right out some, and then toe-in if desired? As is, they're awfully close together.

Also, are those VTI stands? How tall?

Congrats on the speakers. They're very impressive.

Hi Beave!
Room is 15'-4"l x 11'-6"w. I misplaced my measurements for the cathedral ceiling, but roughly 2000'3 in volume.
Front speakers right now are 5.5' apart on center, and the BMRs have about 1' behind them to the wall. LP is about 7.5' back, with another5.5' behind me to the rear wall.

I definitely agree they are closer than they should be. When my other speakers arrive this week, I was planning on moving them both out another 6" each after I run the added cables. But I do still need to use that ladder (left side) on occasion to access the loft space. Also, right corner not only amplifies bass, but gets seemingly extra-boomy, more so than the left corner does. I noticed that when I crawled out my sub placements. Maybe not a true concern, but that rear port firing into the corner was in my thought process.

And yes... VTI stand. I wanted something I could trust to hold a 32# speaker. I currently have 2 of the poles filled with sand, and am going to use gravel to fill the third after I thread cable and upon moving them to L/R Surround duty in another 4 months. That will be the home of the BMRs when the Phil3s arrive.
Stands are the tall ones, 36". Which is why I have them on the angled monitor pads. For surround, I want that height, so, I chose to spend the money once instead of twice. The drivers are aimed almost precisely at ear level, which for me is ~49".

Thanks for the suggestion! if you have more, please share!

 

[ryanosaur]

Hey @ryanosaur this looks great. I think others already gave you advice on this, but you can solve most of the diffraction problem by simply moving the Left and right speaker farther away and into the room. I suspect they will cast a larger soundstage and generally sound better if you can sit a decent distance back with them a good bit apart.

Having the center like that will inevitably cause diffraction. There is no solution to that if you must have them setup this way. The solution would be to have your equipment rack somewhere else and the center in a proper speaker stand. You can line the area around the center speaker with acoustic foam. It’s imperfect but viable.

Can you take measurements?

No measurments, yet, but I will in the next month or two. Not that the Mic is too expensive, but I had to give the ol' wallet a break. That, and the lady was getting a bit jealous of all my attention going here!

Once I get the surrounds in place this week, I'm going to redo the shelves a bit lower... and push it back further against the wall. That's the short solution. I thought about building my own rack too, in which case I could move the gear to my immediate right at the LP. I have a standing Drafting Table I use for any non-computer work/cat platform...
Because they are designing a... Cat-thedral! (Yeah, I went there.)
...It has 40"h x 28"w x22"d usable space underneath.

Solid idea... I like it! Wheels are turning. Besides, I needed a good reason to delay my cable management project!

 

[Swerd]

Some horizontal haters, eh? . Your BMR is not a MTM design.

The concern on horizontal MTM is when there are 2 mid woofers covering the same frequency range, the phenomenon of lobing can occur which some people may notice or not... I’m not sure if that is why a BMR was recommended by Dennis over the Phil MTM center??

Right. Too often people react negatively when they see a sideways center speaker without realizing that it can easily be made to work.

Dennis has a sideways MTM speaker design, but it was designed before the 3-way BMR speaker. The BMR sounds better than the MTM, sideways or upright. All it took was rotating the ribbon tweeter 90° and some simple adjustments to the crossover to account for the wider front baffle. No sideways lobing pattern and no diffraction problems.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi Lovin! Hope you're keeping warm in your little corner. I don't mind the frost here, but its nice when I go to the outdoor pool... and its not frosty!

LPF on LFE through the AVR... not runnng a full signal to the subs. Just LFE OUTS. The manual is a little sparse on details for setting it all up and I relied on info from the internet to help me better understand.

Please, if you have an suggestions... Cheers!

It's actually not been too bad, just a bit wet at our elevation but finally getting some snow up higher that's sticking around for a bit. Outdoor pool this time of year even if there was one I think I'd pass on Hot tub, maybe.

LPF of LFE only affects content that has the LFE (.1) channel, and the normal limit of such in recordings is 120hz (can be higher, tho I think unusual)....I leave mine at 120 fwiw. LFE mode in your Marantz and setting speakers to small will redirect bass from speakers to sub per your crossovers (and LFE to sub only); LFE + Main with speakers set to large will duplicate the lower bass in speakers and subs (LFE still going to your subs).

PS Congrats on the very nice set of speakers/subs you got there!

 

[ryanosaur]

Dennis has a sideways MTM speaker design, but it was designed before the 3-way BMR speaker. The BMR sounds better than the MTM, sideways or upright. All it took was rotating the ribbon tweeter 90° and some simple adjustments to the crossover to account for the wider front baffle. No sideways lobing pattern and no diffraction problems.

I'm reminded of @shadyJ's review of the Outlaw speakers, specifically the LCR with its MTM configuration. He tests it vertical and horizontal to compare the effect.

 

[CB22]

I never envisioned myself owning standmounts as my L/R.

just wait till your Phil 3s come in. Already eying out par of VTF 15s for some new speaker stands for the BMRs. Congrats, you’ll have some great speakers for the new year.

 

[ryanosaur]

just wait till your Phil 3s come in. Already eying out par of VTF 15s for some new speaker stands for the BMRs. Congrats, you’ll have some great speakers for the new year.

Is that "VTF 15s AS speaker stands?" If So... perhaps you should try combining them like that RBH Super-speaker! Sandwich 2 BMRs between 2 VTF15s EACH as your L/Rs! I'm certain Dennis would help tweek the crossovers for that!

 

[ryanosaur]

Quick follow up:
I did say Damn the torpedos... and listened to a lot of Tom Petty! nah... But I did experiment a little more with speaker placement at the suggestions of many of you.
I moved them into the room by another 6" and apart by another 6"... so 18" from the front wall, and now 6' apart on center. Changes are subtle... perhaps a little more open. I also experimented with toeing in a bit, however I turned them back as the highs, which are already a touch lively, got a little bit more rambunctious. Since the dispersion on these speakers is so good, for me the value in keeping them perpendicular to the wall is in taming those highs a touch.
With Mini Phils arriving tomorrow and AAs on Thursday, I'll experiment with Audyssey a bit. Just to see what it does. Fully prepared to shut it off, though... but could give me a hint about taming the highs a touch.
Cheers!

 

[Swerd]

With Mini Phils arriving tomorrow and AAs on Thursday

That's almost the whole Philharmonic Audio offering! You're gonna have your plate full . It looks like a very Happy New Year for you!

 

[ryanosaur]

That's almost the whole Philharmonic Audio offering

The Phil 3s were the splurge. Not gonna lie about it. It started by being interested in the possibility of building a second, smaller system which was going to just be the BMRs up front, and sealed Mini Phils to round out a 7.x rig. When the Phil 3s entered the equation, I knew I had to cut a corner somewhere... and at the same time found a way to spend more?! My corner cutting had me eliminate 1 pair of Mini-Phils for the AAs... knowing that when the 3s arrive, I would move everything back a channel... and up. So in May when the 3s should arrive, I'm going to get another pair of AA's to build a .4 Atmos system... with Phil3s and BMRs handling my exploration of 5-channel audio.
In a way, the oddball is the Mini-Phils. I really wanted good speakers at L/R surround for the 4 months or so I am waiting for the 3's. And since I was saving on my planned budget by going with Dennis for this work, I didn't sweat it!
Had I taken any of the other gear to the extent I'm doing here with the Philharmonic/Outlaw 7.2.4 rig, I would have easily spent an extra 2K or more. But with sales on the X-13s, and 2200s from Outlaw, and Dennis' great prices, I might have built a rig for the ages!

Now, why: With half my life as a musician, removed from my current existence by... the other half of my life as a fine dining Chef, I have been missing a huge part of who I am. I had squirreled away some cash over the years thinking I might buy a new Tenor one day, but I have some great horns already, and I love playing my Soprano, so when I started thinking audio a few years ago, I started saving a little more. And the main reason is I miss the feeling of being IN the music. Playing in a Symphonic Wind Ensemble, Marching Band, Jazz Bands, small ensembles, rock bands... There is a feeling I haven't had in over 15 years. Being IN sound.
So this is a return for me, the the half of who I am that I haven't been for too long.
Part of my redoing my office is to make room for my horns and a music stand, too.

So as I wrap my evening listening to Hindemith Viola Sonatas performed by Kim Kashkashian (ECM New Series 1330-32), I know I achieved one part of my goal. My presence, in sound. I haven't listened to this in probably 20 years, because it didn't sound good on my old systems. Now, it sounds right. Just like the link I added earlier in the Classical Music thread:

The Lady couldn't handle that. Wait 'til I drop Penderecki and the St Luke Passion on her.
Cheers, Swerd!