Sacd over hdmi

[PENG]

Good info PENG , thank you! Where are you download dsd file? HD tracks?

I downloaded my multichannel DSD tracks for sure from:

http://www.2l.no/hires/ but they are out of business since Oct 23 2018, apparently working on a new one ready in 2019, and you can probably buy those tracks from:
— HighResAudio.com
— HDtracks.com
— e-Onkyo

I have purchase dsd files mostly from hdtracks.com but also from:
https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse/#

I don't recall if I had bought any multichannel tracks from them, and am not really sure if they stock them, likely not, for whatever reason.

also downloaded from Primephonic before but they too have closed the download stores.

I am not too keen on multichannel anyway as I seem to enjoy 2 channel stereo more, and found 5.1 to be more fun, but they seem less natural, to me anyway.

 

[lovinthehd]

I downloaded my multichannel DSD tracks for sure from:

http://www.2l.no/hires/ but they are out of business since Oct 23 2018, apparently working on a new one ready in 2019, and you can probably buy those tracks from:
— HighResAudio.com
— HDtracks.com
— e-Onkyo

I have purchase dsd files mostly from hdtracks.com but also from:
https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse/#

I don't recall if I had bought any multichannel tracks from them, and am not really sure if they stock them, likely not, for whatever reason.

also downloaded from Primephonic before but they too have closed the download stores.

I am not too keen on multichannel anyway as I seem to enjoy 2 channel stereo more, and found 5.1 to be more fun, but they seem less natural, to me anyway.

The last time I tried to download multich dsd was from nativedsd.com, was just looking around there. They have some multich, mostly classical, which isn't for the most part what I'm interested in. I couldn't find any real evidence of anything multich at hdtracks.com

 

[PENG]

The last time I tried to download multich dsd was from nativedsd.com, was just looking around there. They have some multich, mostly classical, which isn't for the most part what I'm interested in. I couldn't find any real evidence of anything multich at hdtracks.com

I think people who chase sacds are more likely classical music lovers so I am not totally surprise of yours findings. It would be odd that hdtracks.com, being one of the biggest and a pioneer in this game, not to carry 5.1 pcm/dsd tracks but I got the same impression you do, that they don't do multichannel. I email them about this anyway and will report back if and when I do get a response.

 

[lovinthehd]

It was an exaggeration but only slightly, imax movie, popcorn and soda....probably $35

Then I see this today https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46438241?ns_source=facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_london&ns_linkname=english_regions

 

[Graph audio]

Keep in mind sacd uses sampling rate of 2.8224 MHz, so the DSD format is DSD64. The SR7011/12 can handle 5.6 MHz or DSD128, so instead of buying disc you can buy downloadable DSD files. I found not benefits of disc and have not used any of my 3 sacd player for a long time, because it is much more convenient to play the digital files via the usb port, streaming, or via my usb dacs.

I’m gonna do some research on these formats because I’m not familiar with dsd64 or 128. I remember when the hardest part about getting some music was bumming a ride or taking the bus to the local mall and finding a cassette. Now there’s research and hardware and software and storage......wth happened?. Lol

 

[Joe B]

In Post #21 @PENG gave you the 2L Nordic Sound record labels "Hi-res Test Bench". You can download a sample of music in a variety of formats to "hear" the differences in formats. I have read how plenty of people say you can not hear differences beyond CD quality as the human ear can not hear it, but you should give it a listen for yourself. I have found it very helpful and quiet revealing. And it's FREE!

 

[Graph audio]

In Post #21 @PENG gave you the 2L Nordic Sound record labels "Hi-res Test Bench". You can download a sample of music in a variety of formats to "hear" the differences in formats. I have read how plenty of people say you can not hear differences beyond CD quality as the human ear can not hear it, but you should give it a listen for yourself. I have found it very helpful and quiet revealing. And it's FREE!

Im definitely gonna do some comparisons

 

[PENG]

In Post #21 @PENG gave you the 2L Nordic Sound record labels "Hi-res Test Bench". You can download a sample of music in a variety of formats to "hear" the differences in formats. I have read how plenty of people say you can not hear differences beyond CD quality as the human ear can not hear it, but you should give it a listen for yourself. I have found it very helpful and quiet revealing. And it's FREE!

I downloaded of those available at the time. Last time I checked they shut it down and apparently is working on another site. In my own comparison listening, I concluded that the experts who conducted various DBT were correct, at least for me, that formats make no difference beyond CD quality. In my experience, SACDs, and higher resolution (than CD's) files, whether it is in DSD or PCM, do have much higher chance of sounding good, simply because there seem to be more of them with higher recording quality.

 

[PENG]

Im definitely gonna do some comparisons

For a fair comparison, please compare the same recording, just different format/resolution.

 

[Graph audio]

For a fair comparison, please compare the same recording, just different format/resolution.

Absolutely. That will be my weekend project, hopefully thus weekend

 

[2channel lover]

Thats great news!! I had called marantz tech support about this and they said yes but didnt seem very confident at all in their answer. Ive also heard that if you play sacd’s without compatible equipment then you will only get one layer of audio data from the cd and not the dsd layer.
Ive never played a Sacd, whats your opinion on sound quality?

SACD SQ...I'm about a yr into collecting hi res audio and have 60+ SCAD titles now, most are hybrids that will play on a reg CD player.

If you have speakers that are relatively flat and what I call...signal in, signal out...you will have some immediate feedback on the larger file sizes, but doing some A/B comparisons the difference that you can heard is subtle in many cases. The misnomer about SACD is the music file is better, and in some cases that might be true, but in reality what you're getting is the uncompressed file.

There are a few titles that I've owned in LP, CD, and now SCAD...one being Miles Davis best selling "Kind Of Blue". I no longer do vinyl but I've played the redbook CD and the SACD in A/B format...the SACD is listed as multi-ch, but essentially a 2.1.

Differences...they cleaned up some distortion the left ch was picking up on some of the higher trumpet notes. The bass is a more pronounced and easier to follow his notes when the full band chimes in...the quiet passages in the music are more quiet. The imaging is good on both, but the SACD seemed to have a bigger soundstage.

Another A/B that was really good...Abraxas, by Santana...the opening track with the chimes...the SACD they sound as like they are literally in the room and soundstaging 2' or more wider than the speakers are positioned. I use this A/B a lot because it's a dramatic difference...also clean up a distortion from the redbook version.

On the flip...I have Nora Jones, Come Away With Me...redbook and SACD...the hi res stereo version is basically louder and her voice seems slightly more forward....but the multi-ch layer is considerably more engaging with the music.

I said that to say, and echo the earlier thought on this...the wow factor is in the SACD multi-ch layer...notables like Dire Straits Brothers In Arms...the multi-ch is really well done. If you like DS, it's a must have. Another one I use when showing off the system.

If you decide to get into hi res audio...there are good resources for user reviews and I've found them to be pretty accurate so far.

 

[Joe B]

Redbook CD and SACD are both uncompressed file formats.

If you're not doing A/B comparison of the redbook CD layer on the SACD to the multi-channel layer then you really are not comparing apples to apples. As you said above, "they cleaned up some distortion...," shows that the changes made in re-mastering are evident, not necessarily a difference in comparing DSD 64 to 16/44kHz. To do an honest A/B comparison I think it is necessary to compare 2 channel DSD 64 to 16/44kHz of the same piece of music from the same master. That way the only variable is the digital format. And, it needs to be done in 2 channel, otherwise the sound fields are completely different.

I'm not sure if you're really after pursuing this or not, but if you truly want to compare digital file formats, I believe it is necessary to compare them 2 channel to 2 channel from the same master on the same equipment. This way the only variable is the file format. Of course it is probably logical to argue that some DAC's might convert differently...which is valid. There are some DAC's that upgrade all digital to DSD before converting to analogue, others that convert all signals to 32/768kHz, etc. Regardless, if there is a difference in the initial file formats the results should also be different after the DAC. It is not valid to compare 2 channel to multi-channel as the experience is completely different.

Purchasing hi-res files or SACD's that have been mastered properly is essential. If it is a new release, it's safe to say you're getting the best they can give you (although there are differences; hence awards for engineering at the Grammy's). Companies like Mobile Fidelity re-master older material for SACD using proprietary equipment to extract the most information they can from the original recording tapes before re-mastering. I recently purchased a hi-res file from HDTracks because it stated specifically that the engineer had gone back to the original studio analogue tapes and remastered. The 24/96kHz files sound amazing.

Have fun enjoying the world of hi-res and SACD. It's only been 2 years since I started getting into it, and I find the multi-channel SACD experience to be awesome.

 

[2channel lover]

Redbook CD and SACD are both uncompressed file formats.

If you're not doing A/B comparison of the redbook CD layer on the SACD to the multi-channel layer then you really are not comparing apples to apples. As you said above, "they cleaned up some distortion...," shows that the changes made in re-mastering are evident, not necessarily a difference in comparing DSD 64 to 16/44kHz. To do an honest A/B comparison I think it is necessary to compare 2 channel DSD 64 to 16/44kHz of the same piece of music from the same master. That way the only variable is the digital format. And, it needs to be done in 2 channel, otherwise the sound fields are completely different.

I'm not sure if you're really after pursuing this or not, but if you truly want to compare digital file formats, I believe it is necessary to compare them 2 channel to 2 channel from the same master on the same equipment. This way the only variable is the file format. Of course it is probably logical to argue that some DAC's might convert differently...which is valid. There are some DAC's that upgrade all digital to DSD before converting to analogue, others that convert all signals to 32/768kHz, etc. Regardless, if there is a difference in the initial file formats the results should also be different after the DAC. It is not valid to compare 2 channel to multi-channel as the experience is completely different.

Purchasing hi-res files or SACD's that have been mastered properly is essential. If it is a new release, it's safe to say you're getting the best they can give you (although there are differences; hence awards for engineering at the Grammy's). Companies like Mobile Fidelity re-master older material for SACD using proprietary equipment to extract the most information they can from the original recording tapes before re-mastering. I recently purchased a hi-res file from HDTracks because it stated specifically that the engineer had gone back to the original studio analogue tapes and remastered. The 24/96kHz files sound amazing.

Have fun enjoying the world of hi-res and SACD. It's only been 2 years since I started getting into it, and I find the multi-channel SACD experience to be awesome.

Agreed...the only true comparison is 2ch to 2ch...In the case of Abraxas...both were 2 ch...and I A/B using the 2 ch layer of the SACD before trying the MC layer.

Now...I'm not all that concerned with the comparisons. I'm building a hi res library but still buy redbook or some 16/44 downloads.

 

[2channel lover]

On the 16/44...not compressed...yes, depending on the master tape from my understanding.

 

[Graph audio]

I’m in the beginning stages of hi res audio so all the info you guys are providing really helps the research part of this potential hobby. It seems there is a fairly large learning curve when it comes to the many file formats, hardware needed, HR websites etc.. it will be a slow but enjoyable journey,,!
But.....I’ve run into a bit of trouble last night with my tv/ Avr not playing nice so I’m about to do another forum post lol

 

[Joe B]

Now...I'm not all that concerned with the comparisons. I'm building a hi res library but still buy redbook or some 16/44 downloads.

I buy what I can. If I can buy an SACD of a work I do. If I can only buy the CD, I do. If I can't buy either, that's when I go to the hi-res FLAC files. Having started my CD collection in the 80's, I prefer to have physical media. But I'll take what I can get!

 

[Graph audio]

I buy what I can. If I can buy an SACD of a work I do. If I can only buy the CD, I do. If I can't buy either, that's when I go to the hi-res FLAC files. Having started my CD collection in the 80's, I prefer to have physical media. But I'll take what I can get!

I like this approach a lot. Sometime simple is best!!!!

 

[2channel lover]

I buy what I can. If I can buy an SACD of a work I do. If I can only buy the CD, I do. If I can't buy either, that's when I go to the hi-res FLAC files. Having started my CD collection in the 80's, I prefer to have physical media. But I'll take what I can get!

For the most part I'm collecting a lot of acoustic jazz and classic rock in hi res.

A lot of the jazz recordings from the 50s and 60s the SACD offers an upgrade in SQ. For instance, I've been on this Miles Davis limb and I created a collectors list...most of these are SACD or hi-res flac...there are about 4 more remaining for me to complete that wishlist. Same thing with Coltrane, Monk. Bill Evans, etc...

I really wanted Fleetwood Mac Rumours and Eagles Hotel California in MC Hi res so I waited until funds were available and I got them. There's some Harry Connick I wanted...not available in hi res so I bought the redbook.

 

[Ataraxia]

I’m in the beginning stages of hi res audio so all the info you guys are providing really helps the research part of this potential hobby. It seems there is a fairly large learning curve when it comes to the many file formats, hardware needed, HR websites etc.. it will be a slow but enjoyable journey,,!
But.....I’ve run into a bit of trouble last night with my tv/ Avr not playing nice so I’m about to do another forum post lol

Me too. Initially I wanted to figure out what format to start my music collection with. I'm finding that it's best to be format flexible, although as noted above you can have a tiered preference such as "Always SACD or DSD first," if available... Etc. And as far as hardware to run the formats, another rabbit hole. Physical media? USB? Blu-Ray player w/DSD? Bluesound node 2i for MQA? ... Etc. Etc.

Since I do need to upgrade my Blu Ray Player I might as well get one that plays Hi-Res, so the Panasonic DP-UB820-K is on my radar.

Currently I'm running Tidal with the Hi-Fi upgrade through my AVR and it sounds excellent. The standard 16/44 CD quality files sound great (some better than others) and usually the MQA files which aren't even completely unfolded to highest resolution (just 24/44 or 24/48 depending on the original recording) sound better than the CD quality 16/44 files.

As usual with audio.. So many options to consider!

 

[Joe B]

If any of you are into classical music or just want to have a good classical file in your collection, when the new 2L Nordic Sound web site is up and running (some time at the beginning of 2019), it would be worth downloading at least one album in your favorite format. They record their masters in Auro 9.1 at 24/352kHz.
From their home page:
"Morten Lindberg consolidates his official World Record of «Most Grammy-nominations without a win» to a total of 26 nominations as a Recording Engineer and Music Producer. Norwegian label 2L have garnered no less than 34 GRAMMY-nominations." And this is since 2006...............impressive. I've got some 24/96 & 24/192 files that sound amazing.