considering Crown XLS 1002 instead of Outlaw M2200

[ryanosaur]

Admittedly as I researched the forum and tried elsewhere online to find some info to help me understand batter the Crown product... I only got more and more confused. Two different threads here from 2018 seemed to have different messages about the XLI line amplifiers.
For me, I am mostly interested in protecting my budget AND delivering "good, clean, power" to my speakers.
For powering 5 channels, I had been considering the Monolith5, and Emo XPA5. Currently leaning towards the Outlaws, but was reminded by a friend about Crowns. The price is competitive... but research and opinions are inconclusive.

A good deal of talk had been given over to the THD on the Crown XLIs being high at .5, but still technically inaudible, as well as some focus on the IMD (which as I understand, should also not be a real-world concern).

Would greatly appreciate some assistance in navigating this and learning a little more about the technology, please.

Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, why XLi instead of XLS series? I've no experience with XLi, but have four XLS1500s; I've used them for stand alone amp, power amp and sub amp. XLi fan noise could be a consideration (apparently fairly noticeable whereas XLS is rarely noticed). XLS is class D, XLi A/B). As far as spec, they're geared for a different crowd than the home consumer generally but doubt you'd actually notice the THD/IMD differences, at least I didn't. Might also check out more economical amp models like the Outlaw 5000 or their new 7000x.

 

[ryanosaur]

Curious, why XLi instead of XLS series? I've no experience with XLi, but have four XLS1500s; I've used them for stand alone amp, power amp and sub amp. XLi fan noise could be a consideration (apparently fairly noticeable whereas XLS is rarely noticed). XLS is class D, XLi A/B). As far as spec, they're geared for a different crowd than the home consumer generally but doubt you'd actually notice the THD/IMD differences, at least I didn't. Might also check out more economical amp models like the Outlaw 5000 or their new 7000x.

That was the recommendation, I think because of the sale on the XLI1500 ($200ea)...

Myself, not too familiar with Crown, overall, just seen them mentioned periodically.

And so just doing a quick search, current model is XLS 1002 that I would probably be looking at. (Just updated the thread title to make it more relevant.)

What's your overall experience with them, Lovin. If I recall, you are happy with yours, ya?

 

[moves]

The crown XLS is nice and quiet and you can also control the lights on them so they are off and not shinning in your eyes. The also accept balanced, binding posts connections, AND Speakon connections which is nice.

One thing I recommend is that you consider the power cord length because the one that comes with the amp is probably about 2 feet... not very long.

 

[lovinthehd]

That was the recommendation, I think because of the sale on the XLI1500 ($200ea)...

Myself, not too familiar with Crown, overall, just seen them mentioned periodically.

And so just doing a quick search, current model is XLS 1002 that I would probably be looking at. (Just updated the thread title to make it more relevant.)

What's your overall experience with them, Lovin. If I recall, you are happy with yours, ya?

Yeah great little amps for the price (paid an average of $300 apiece new). When I got the first pair I replaced a pair of Carvers I was using, didn't miss a beat nor any noticeable difference (but I am not an amp listener otoh). I'd start with the XLS1502 and up, they have a better SNR spec and a little extra power for little extra $.

 

[PENG]

Admittedly as I researched the forum and tried elsewhere online to find some info to help me understand batter the Crown product... I only got more and more confused.

Why not just bite the bullet and try one? If you buy it from an authorized dealer who offers X number of days free return, there is no risk to your budget. If you are confident that you can go by ears, that's the best way. If you can rely on specs, the Crown XLS is good. If you need to rely on both specs and published bench test results like I do, then you should go with one that has been bench tested, such as Monolith's. I won't recommend Monoliths except to people who don't mind, or even prefer heavy amps.

 

[everettT]

If your looking for budget power, go for the xls 25xx series. At most power requirements distortion should be well below any concern.

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL I challenged Peng likewise......assume you saw this thread? https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/impressions-on-crown-xli-vs-xls-for-hi-fi-mains.110720/

 

[lovinthehd]

Also, don't forget QSC has some nice amps, too.

 

[ryanosaur]

assume you saw this thread? https://forums.audioholics.com/foru...s-on-crown-xli-vs-xls-for-hi-fi-mains.110720/

Yup! that's one of the two I was referencing in first post!

I'd start with the XLS1502 and up, they have a better SNR spec and a little extra power for little extra $.

How significant is the difference in SNR between the 1002 and other 3 models? (97dB vs 103dB?)

Also, don't forget QSC has some nice amps, too.

Indeed... but a little more than I'm comfortable swinging for 5 channels unless I'm looking at the wrong models. Any recommendations?

I won't recommend Monoliths except to people who don't mind, or even prefer heavy amps.

I don't mind the heavy amp, but from a previous discussion, I don't think the Monoliths are quite what I want, though the price is great.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yup! that's one of the two I was referencing in first post!


How significant is the difference in SNR between the 1002 and other 3 models? (97dB vs 103dB?)


Indeed... but a little more than I'm comfortable swinging for 5 channels unless I'm looking at the wrong models. Any recommendations?

I don't mind the heavy amp, but from a previous discussion, I don't think the Monoliths are quite what I want, though the price is great.

Yep, that's the snr spec I was referring to. 6dB is 6dB? Probably not a consideration but with the highest sensitivity speakers....one of the few complaints about this amp series was some amp hiss experienced by a guy with super high sensitivity speakers (like 109-110dB horns) and a very low noise floor he had, otherwise he had no other complaints about sound quality. He even changed pre-amp to meet his needs.

Why worry about more than the front three channels for amp, tho?

 

[ryanosaur]

Yep, that's the snr spec I was referring to. 6dB is 6dB? Probably not a consideration but with the highest sensitivity speakers....one of the few complaints about this amp series was some amp hiss experienced by a guy with super high sensitivity speakers (like 109-110dB horns) and a very low noise floor he had, otherwise he had no other complaints about sound quality. He even changed pre-amp to meet his needs.

Why worry about more than the front three channels for amp, tho?

Speakers are 85/86dB sensitivity, 6ohms... starting out with Philharmonic: 3 BMRs and a pair of Mini-Phils (and Affordable Accuracy at Rear) for 7.0. When the Phil 3s come, then I will run BMR Center, Phil3 L/R, BMR Surrounds, Mini-Phil Rear, and Affordable Accuracy for .4 Atmos. I am going into the 5.1 audio world once I get this all back together, and decided that I want to keep the 5 matched as close as possible. The Marantz will take the Rears and Atmos. My logic is that for HT, you want the front 3 matched, both voice, and amplification. Since my focus is more Audio than HT, it struck me that I could extend that to include the 5 speakers I will be listening to Audio with.

At the end of the day, Considering the M2200 from Outlaw x5 @$1579 shipped. Or running the XLS1002 bridged... x5 @$1495 shipped. (Yes, I'm certifiably loony... I do not need that much power.)

(But perhaps you all can recommend a better way to do what I want, please? I'm still learning, and not afraid to admit it!)

(But at least I'm not trying to passively bi-amp everything! )

I think I saw 100dB as the SNR for the M2200.

Is 3db SNR a big difference? More so than 6dB?

 

[PENG]

I think I saw 100dB as the SNR for the M2200.

Is 3db SNR a big difference? More so than 6dB?

Where did you see 100 dB? According to the Outlaw website, it is 112 dB A weighting.

6 dB is a bigger difference than 3 dB, naturally.

 

[ryanosaur]

Where did you see 100 dB? According to the Outlaw website, it is 112 dB A weighting.

Correct.. thought I was on their site, but maybe not! 112db! Right there in black and white pixels.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just looking... is S/N = SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio?
If so, my Marantz SR6012 is rated at 100dB Analog, 102dB Digital.

How much of that is passed through the Pre Amp? or is that strictly an Amplifier spec in terms of the signal to the speaker?

 

[ryanosaur]

Or running the XLS1002 bridged... x5 @$1495 shipped. (Yes, I'm certifiably loony... I do not need that much power.)

One other quick note... as I understand sensitivity, at 85/86dB, 128w is already clearing reference level peaks at ~106/107dB respectively, correct? Another 128w only buys me +3db, then another 256w only buys me another +3dB. For me, its not about the power. I almost can't fathom breaking the 64w mark (by much).
The Bridge Mode thing is more about keeping everything balanced. The right 5-channel amp, or 5 M2200s...

Perhaps my interest here is because the 1.4v sensitivity is spot on with what Marantz says is the pre-out voltage on my AVR. I do accept, from previous conversations, that it is likely that my AVR is also outputting at a higher voltage. Though, admittedly, I don't know how to test for that in order to confirm.

Again, suggestions are welcome, and helping educate me is priceless!
Thanks All!

 

[PENG]

Just looking... is S/N = SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio?
If so, my Marantz SR6012 is rated at 100dB Analog, 102dB Digital.

How much of that is passed through the Pre Amp? or is that strictly an Amplifier spec in terms of the signal to the speaker?

Preamp handles much lower level signals so it should have a higher number than the 100 dB that is the overall snr. I asked Gene before for some sort of ball park figure, and if I understood his response right, the snr for the preamp section would probably be several dB higher, say 103 to 105, I guess.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I have a Crown XLS Series amp and I love it.

THD too high for an audio amp? Nope. You won’t hear it.

Anybody who just looks at the specs and then says that the THD is too high obviously has not owned or tested this amp.

Highly recommended for audio. Some people need to get over their Class D phobia.

 

[everettT]

Also, don't forget QSC has some nice amps, too.

I didn't forget

 

[ryanosaur]

I didn't forget

You’re the reason I’m in this mess, mr sexy new speakers with cool cinema amp! ha!

How’s the rig working out? Are you able to accomplish anything else in life?

I suspect when my BMRs arrive, I’m gonna lose 2-3 days. When the Phil 3s arrive, I’m gonna b divorced.