Help with Surround Sound system and Ceiling speakers

[adham]

So, F-connectors are generally sold as twist on or compression. Cable companies use them ALL the time, but... geez, maybe post your location and hit up a few more forums or ask around at your job to see if someone has a f-connector compression tool. I mean, I would swing by and do this for free just to be nice. It's a sub $1 connector and the tool to do a top notch job of putting a f-connector on the end of a RG6 cable.

You can get twist on connectors, but... well, I would do that before investing in a compression tool.

Yes, the adapter you showed would work.

But, this is the piece I was talking about.

https://www.parts-express.com/gold-rca-female-to-f-female-with-nut-hex-type--091-1200

Hopefully that link works.

It replaces what comes in the wall plate. Just double check that it'll work before you pull off what comes on the wall plate, since I'm not totally sure what wall plate you actually got.

The adapter you have shown will work, and I use them when I don't have the wall plate connection I linked to, but it is good to use as few adapters as possible, and behind a wall, things can get ugly if there are adapters back there that jiggle loose. Better to terminate 'F-connector' and convert to RCA at the plate, or on the front side of the plate, not behind the wall.

I don't solder, so I feel your pain there. We'll get you there.

I'm going to stay another thread regarding speaker/sub suggestions for my 5.1 setup.

But before I do, I thought I'd share these pictures of what's behind the volume control knobs for the deck speakers, and in-ceiling speakers in dining room and bedroom/bath. Doesn't make any sense. Why have a combination of 2 different wiring? The normal 16 gauge wire (red and black wires) is running from the volume knob to the speakers. Then CAT5 coming out of the wall plate.

Just out of curiosity, I disconnected the volume switch and connected the speaker wire straight to the receiver and the speakers work.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Just out of curiosity, I disconnected the volume switch and connected the speaker wire straight to the receiver and the speakers work.

The reason you might do something like this is that there are some networked based units that have internal digital amplification in the volume control and a controller that would live with your A/V receiver. The controller distributes audio (digitally) and power to the volume control location over cat-5e. You terminate both ends of the wiring to normal RJ-45 (network) connections and just plug them in. Then the speaker wire comes off the volume control/source selector and up to the speakers. This system actually works just fine that way, but it is VERY purpose built and only a few manufacturers allow for such wiring.

As it is, I strongly recommend that you rewire. I am not saying to pull NEW wire. That's likely impossible, and certainly not cost efficient. I mean rewire what you currently have so that you make the most of the wiring that is in place.

DOUBLE UP all pairs of the cat-5 wiring into each terminal. Do the same at both ends. So, call the orange PAIR the + for the right speaker, and the brown pair the - for the right speaker. Now the blue pair is the + for the left speaker, and the green pair is the - for the left speaker. Wire BOTH ends the same way. This way you have more wire you are working with from end to end.

You also must make sure that the volume controls are impedance matching units. I didn't see a model number on there, and I didn't see a dip switch on them or a jumper to put in place. As you add more speakers to a single amplifier, especially if you are using an A/V receiver, then it makes those speakers more and more difficult to drive. It's a heavier burden on the receiver, and can shut the amplifier down, and may even damage an A/V receiver. Impedance matching volume controls correct for this issue. They allow you to adjust for several pairs of speakers in a single system and while the speakers won't play as loud, they will not damage the A/V receiver.

It does look like the speaker wiring coming off the volume controls is installed correctly.

 

[adham]

The reason you might do something like this is that there are some networked based units that have internal digital amplification in the volume control and a controller that would live with your A/V receiver. The controller distributes audio (digitally) and power to the volume control location over cat-5e. You terminate both ends of the wiring to normal RJ-45 (network) connections and just plug them in. Then the speaker wire comes off the volume control/source selector and up to the speakers. This system actually works just fine that way, but it is VERY purpose built and only a few manufacturers allow for such wiring.

As it is, I strongly recommend that you rewire. I am not saying to pull NEW wire. That's likely impossible, and certainly not cost efficient. I mean rewire what you currently have so that you make the most of the wiring that is in place.

DOUBLE UP all pairs of the cat-5 wiring into each terminal. Do the same at both ends. So, call the orange PAIR the + for the right speaker, and the brown pair the - for the right speaker. Now the blue pair is the + for the left speaker, and the green pair is the - for the left speaker. Wire BOTH ends the same way. This way you have more wire you are working with from end to end.

You also must make sure that the volume controls are impedance matching units. I didn't see a model number on there, and I didn't see a dip switch on them or a jumper to put in place. As you add more speakers to a single amplifier, especially if you are using an A/V receiver, then it makes those speakers more and more difficult to drive. It's a heavier burden on the receiver, and can shut the amplifier down, and may even damage an A/V receiver. Impedance matching volume controls correct for this issue. They allow you to adjust for several pairs of speakers in a single system and while the speakers won't play as loud, they will not damage the A/V receiver.

It does look like the speaker wiring coming off the volume controls is installed correctly.

Just wanted to say Thank You!! I did exactly what you said with doubling up the wires and I got all the speakers and volume control knobs working! I would have had no idea where to start so thanks again.

Looks like I can have all speakers running at the same time or one at a time.

Not sure about the impedance matching units. I attached a picture of the control.

 

[BMXTRIX]

So, probably my only concern here is that with how cheap and clueless they appeared to go on the original installation, it looks like they didn't use impedance matching volume controls. This presents a long term reliability issue as the speakers will appear as a 2ohm load to the amplifier. If you are using the zone-2 output from your receiver, this is a very heavy load to that receiver when in use.

From the manual on this page:
https://www.legrand.us/onq/audio-video/audio-distribution/impedance-match/364741-02.aspx

It calls out the requirement for impedance matching volume controls.

Overdriving an amplifier can cause it to shut down if it is properly protected, but over the long run can cause it to completely fail. Protection isn't all that expensive really.

Monoprice has impedance matching volume controls for $16.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10903&cs_id=1090301&p_id=8243&seq=1&format=2

That's their indoor rated model. If you have any outdoors, you should use that model.

The photo of the back of their volume control shows the jumpers to set the impedance level. It can be set to 1x (default), 2x, 4x, or 8x speakers. You would move the jumper to the 4x position for both jumpers and call it done.

It is good to hear that things are working. That shows good competence on your part which was lacking on the previous installation work. But, I would correct that last item so that you will have long term reliability of the system and years of enjoyment.