Would I notice any differences?

[Hunter21]

I recently acquired a parasound a23 for my 2 front speakers. The speakers are paradigm persona 3f. I am using the outlaw model 5000 amp for my center and rear speakers, which was also used for my fronts. Even though at the same power the parasound does sound more punchy and not as thin.My question is am I really losing anything for not going for the a21 amp? The a21 is an extra 125 W per the two channels, But from what I am reading it doesn't seem like it wouldnt make that much of a difference since to even perceive the difference in sound I would have to go to a 500 W amp. Is it worth spending an extra $1000 for an extra 125W and not even notice a difference, and with that why would they even offer that amp if the two should be similar.

 

[Verdinut]

I recently acquired a parasound a23 for my 2 front speakers. The speakers are paradigm persona 3f. I am using the outlaw model 5000 amp for my center and rear speakers, which was also used for my fronts. Even though at the same power the parasound does sound more punchy and not as thin.My question is am I really losing anything for not going for the a21 amp? The a21 is an extra 125 W per the two channels, But from what I am reading it doesn't seem like it wouldnt make that much of a difference since to even perceive the difference in sound I would have to go to a 500 W amp. Is it worth spending an extra $1000 for an extra 125W and not even notice a difference, and with that why would they even offer that amp if the two should be similar.

With the a21, you would get only an additional 3 dB increase in power which is barely noticeable. You have moderately sensitive Personna 3Fs and that would be IMO a waste of money. Also bear in mind that the 3Fs will only accept a max power input of 200 watts.

The more powerful a21 would be only advantageous if your speakers had a lower sensitivity below 90 dB and could handle more power.

 

[Hunter21]

So won't be anything like the change I experienced from the outlaw to the parasound by making the bass louder and tighter because of the more power. Then it's weird the way paradigm list the specs on their website by saying maximum 200w but suitable amp range 15-400 watts. Well good news so far, since I have to buy two new subwoofers because when I bought the one, Dual subs weren't that popular and I can't see anywhere where there sells my sub since it's a older model . So if it's not going to make any difference, that would save me money to further upgrade to go to dual subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you can hear a day/night significant difference between Outlaw and Parasound on your speakers that have a huge +6.5dB peak around 11-12kHz, then I would guess you will also hear a significant difference between every single amp regardless of brand or line.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/paradigm-persona-3f-speaker-system-review-test-bench

 

[everettT]

If you can hear a day/night significant difference between Outlaw and Parasound on your speakers that have a huge +6.5dB peak around 11-12Hz, then I would guess you will also hear a significant difference between every single amp regardless of brand or line.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/paradigm-persona-3f-speaker-system-review-test-bench

If those speakers hit 11hz I'm grabbing a pair

 

[lovinthehd]

Hard to believe it made a big difference to bass being tighter just because the amp is slightly more powerful...louder maybe.

 

[Leemix]

How much of a difference it will be for you if any i dont know but for me with my gear there have been differences between the amps i used. All parasound. I never play loud so that doesnt enter into it for me. Way back around year 2000 i went from 2x hca1000a to a hca2205 (both bi amp) and that was a massive difference. A couple of years ago i changed speakers and could no longer bi-amp but the 2205 did a great job until it gave out a year ago. Bought a 5250v2. Its very comparable to the old 2205 in power, spac say a little more. Didnt do it for me, something was missing. Couldnt put my finger on any large difference but the music wasnt the same. Didnt enjoy myself so dug a little deeper into what newer parasound line was more comparable to my old amp since the one i thought was the new version of mine didnt sound as good, and had to dig deeper into the pocket also for the halo line a31. An upgrade from my old which seemed to be between the halo and the new classic lines. Now im very happy with the system again.
Long text and since you are considering two from the same line it might not apply to you but to me at least there are differences that are important even disregarding volume.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

Hard to believe it made a big difference to bass being tighter just because the amp is slightly more powerful...louder maybe.

It's hard to believe, but it is a tough one for us "been there, done that bunch.." to say without people getting upset.. We also don't know what the OP meant by "...at the same power.....".., the only thing we know for sure it that the A23 is more expensive, and has better specs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If those speakers hit 11hz I'm grabbing a pair

Doh! It was early in the morning.

 

[PENG]

So won't be anything like the change I experienced from the outlaw to the parasound by making the bass louder and tighter because of the more power. Then it's weird the way paradigm list the specs on their website by saying maximum 200w but suitable amp range 15-400 watts. Well good news so far, since I have to buy two new subwoofers because when I bought the one, Dual subs weren't that popular and I can't see anywhere where there sells my sub since it's a older model . So if it's not going to make any difference, that would save me money to further upgrade to go to dual subs.

You can't based on subjective views of others but you can rely more (relatively but not absolutely) on verifiable specifications. If the speakers is specified as suitable for 15-400 W amp but maximum input is only 200 W, then I think it probably can sustain an input of 200 W but can handle up to 400 W frequent peaks.

They don't specify whether the "W" is average W, or peak W. That again, typically means "peak" (so it looks higher) based on sine waves. Amplifier outputs are normally specified correctly in "average watts", or incorrectly in "RMS watts" that are often used to mean the same though actually different by definition. So an amp rated 100 W average means it is also rated 200 W peak. This is objective facts that you can trust.

It is also a fact that an amp that is rated 200 W average into 4 ohms will not make your speakers sound different than if that same amp is rated 100 W average into 4 ohms, if your spl in your seat only requires 1 W average. Using this example, amps can of course sound different, but not because of their difference in power output.

I have the 250 W A21, but it does not make any difference for me in SQ, when compared with my other amps, even AVRs at level that requires less than 0.5 W average, but that's just me and I used to be "able to" hear difference between amps too, ymmv for sure..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you can hear a day/night significant difference between Outlaw and Parasound on your speakers that have a huge +6.5dB peak around 11-12kHz, then I would guess you will also hear a significant difference between every single amp regardless of brand or line.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/paradigm-persona-3f-speaker-system-review-test-bench

I should also say that if you can hear a "subtle" difference between the Outlaw vs Parasound amps when level-matched, then you will also hear a subtle difference between 2 Parasound amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hard to believe it made a big difference to bass being tighter just because the amp is slightly more powerful...louder maybe.

But we hear that all the time from many audiophiles, don't we?

Bass is tighter and faster.

Soundstage is wider and deeper - more expensive, I mean expansive.

Treble is sweeter, smoother, and more airy.

I forget what the midrange does? Does it get clearer?

 

[lovinthehd]

If an amp can change soundstage you'd think there'd be a separate box/circuit available to enable any amp to do that.... The Soundstage Box would sell a lot you'd think.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

But we hear that all the time from many audiophiles, don't we?

Bass is tighter.

Soundstage is wider.

Treble is sweeter or smoother or more airy.

I forget what the midrange does? Does it get clearer?

"Female voices have a liquidity only bettered by my 2nd cousin's neighbor's Wilson MAXX reference transducers."

"I could actually hear John Coltrane wetting his lips before the defining notes of this classic came blaring though his sax."

"I closed my eyes and imagined where the band's players would be located were I seeing them live. These speakers placed each member exactly where I thought they would be."

...as you can tell, I've read a LOT of speaker reviews since I got back into the game. I might be more than a little jaded right now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If an amp can change soundstage you'd think there'd be a separate box/circuit available to enable any amp to do that.... The Soundstage Box would sell a lot you'd think.

Might be cheaper to just take some pills.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

If an amp can change soundstage you'd think there'd be a separate box/circuit available to enable any amp to do that.... The Soundstage Box would sell a lot you'd think.

It would have to be hermetically sealed in order to keep the quantums in. All hell would break loose on your soundstage if the quantums escaped.

 

[PENG]

Might be cheaper to just take some pills.

Which tpye? Don't some pills offer tighter bass too?

 

[Hunter21]

What I meant by the same power is that the a23 and the outlaw model 5000 amp are within 10 W of difference between each other RMS, I don't know anything about peak power because that's not listed. The only difference I've seen between the 2 amps so far in the spec sheet is the parasound offers more capacitance per channel than the outlaw amp does. The parasound and amp is hooked up with balanced connections were as the outlaw is using unbalanced since it doesnt have any balanced.

 

[Hunter21]

Or are you guys saying it's all in my head and I should return it and save up to go dual subs instead of waiting till I pay the amp off, which would only take 10 months to pay off.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd bet the dual subs would add more than changing amps...