Sub output from 30hz and up. How important is that?

  • Thread starter Stephen Novosel
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Stephen Novosel

Enthusiast
If one is setting all speakers to "small" and running LCR crossovers at 80 Hz and all other surround/height/rear/top at 120 Hz, does sub selection based on +30 Hz performance output matter?

In a thread comparing a PB2000 vs a VTF3 Mk5 a contributor stated "most audio will have more content above 30 Hz vs. very little under 25 Hz on average. So the bump in output in the range that is more common should be a benefit" and another person added "The Hsu sub is more expensive, but the performance is definitely a step up." https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/pb2000-or-vtf3-mk5hp-edit-or.106606/

As I am upgrading a pair of Velodyne CHT-120s, the statements above got me to wonder if I should give consideration to evaluating a sub's capability to augment a soundtrack's +30 Hz content (in addition to a sub's <30 Hz ability). I hadn't even thought about this before I wandered into that thread. Is this an evaluative process that is recommended/followed by others?

I had only considered dual SVS PB-2000s based on discussions I had with SVS.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
It depends. For music, 30 Hz + is pretty much 99.9 percent of all recorded content. For movies, it depends on what kind of movies you like. On newer action and science fiction movies, they can take advantage of lower frequencies, but they will still mostly be using frequency ranges above 30 Hz. Other types of movies obviously don't really use super deep bass.

If you have a variable tuned sub like a Hsu, Monoprice Monolith, Outlaw, or one of the upper tiers of SVS, you can see what you are missing pretty much in real time since you can switch tuning frequencies in the middle of a scene. Get a variable tuned sub, and then throw on a movie scene that has a constant stream of very deep bass. A great scene for this is the 'pods rising' scene from War of the Worlds. While the earth is opening up in that scene, toggle the EQ switch and then open up or close a port that corresponds to the EQ filter. That will let you know what you get from subs with various low-frequency extensions.
 
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Stephen Novosel

Enthusiast
Ah, okay, so it seems as though the consideration is to be weighted on format usage? In my case, it's 100% filmed content.
 
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Stephen Novosel

Enthusiast
Are you familiar with any of the Harry Potter films? If so, can you think of a scene where +30 Hz is truly an important component to the presentation, and so when it's diminished (via a sub that can't deliver at that range) one loses a part of the "experience" of being in the movie? I know those films well, so I'd really be able to pinpoint exactly what you meant above.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Are you familiar with any of the Harry Potter films? If so, can you think of a scene where +30 Hz is truly an important component to the presentation, and so when it's diminished (via a sub that can't deliver at that range) one loses a part of the "experience" of being in the movie? I know those films well, so I'd really be able to pinpoint exactly what you meant above.
I haven't seen any of the Harry Potter movies, sorry.

The thing about 30 Hz+ is most subs will offer that much at least. What we would be talking about in that frequency band is dynamic range, so while most subs cover that range, some subs punch a lot harder than others above 30 Hz. So it depends on how loud you listen. If you don't watch movies at loud levels, you don't need a sub that hit hard in that range because you simply wouldn't be using that headroom, but if you like a powerful and tactile movie experience, you will want to look at subs with some real headroom in that range. If you look at Audioholics subwoofer reviews, they do measure headroom across the subwoofer range so you can see where a sub's strengths lay at.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Are you familiar with any of the Harry Potter films? If so, can you think of a scene where +30 Hz is truly an important component to the presentation, and so when it's diminished (via a sub that can't deliver at that range) one loses a part of the "experience" of being in the movie?
Here's a frequency chart of Sorcerer's Stone:
Sorcerers Stone.jpg
One for Half Blood Prince:
Harry & The Half Blood Prince.jpg
And one for Fantastic Beasts:
Fantastic Beasts.png

I think its fair to say that in all 3 tracks, bass over 30Hz plays a pretty significant role in the soundtrack. As shady/James said though, the question is about dynamic range / how loud you care to listen.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
If one is setting all speakers to "small" and running LCR crossovers at 80 Hz and all other surround/height/rear/top at 120 Hz, does sub selection based on +30 Hz performance output matter?

In a thread comparing a PB2000 vs a VTF3 Mk5 a contributor stated "most audio will have more content above 30 Hz vs. very little under 25 Hz on average. So the bump in output in the range that is more common should be a benefit" and another person added "The Hsu sub is more expensive, but the performance is definitely a step up." https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/pb2000-or-vtf3-mk5hp-edit-or.106606/

As I am upgrading a pair of Velodyne CHT-120s, the statements above got me to wonder if I should give consideration to evaluating a sub's capability to augment a soundtrack's +30 Hz content (in addition to a sub's followed by others?
For me, no. If a sub is augmenting 30 and above, in a non linear fashion it might sound boomy and obnoxious. I couldn’t care less about that. As my FR is pretty smooth, I’m more interested in the 30-15hz range. Even if there much less content there, I want to make sure My subs are delivering it when it’s present in the content.
So for me, no this is not an evaluative process with any value.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Here's a frequency chart of Sorcerer's Stone:
View attachment 27008
One for Half Blood Prince:
View attachment 27009
And one for Fantastic Beasts:
View attachment 27010

I think its fair to say that in all 3 tracks, bass over 30Hz plays a pretty significant role in the soundtrack. As shady/James said though, the question is about dynamic range / how loud you care to listen.
I have seen those FFTs before, and the problem is, what time duration are they covering? Is that the spectral composition of the entire movie or just a scene? Or just a brief moment? Those FFTs dont mean much unless you know what is being measured.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I have seen those FFTs before, and the problem is, what time duration are they covering? Is that the spectral composition of the entire movie or just a scene? Or just a brief moment? Those FFTs dont mean much unless you know what is being measured.
They're billed as for being for the entire film.
 
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Stephen Novosel

Enthusiast
Here's a frequency chart of Sorcerer's Stone:
View attachment 27008
One for Half Blood Prince:
View attachment 27009
And one for Fantastic Beasts:
View attachment 27010

I think its fair to say that in all 3 tracks, bass over 30Hz plays a pretty significant role in the soundtrack. As shady/James said though, the question is about dynamic range / how loud you care to listen.
On the 8500, I listen at volumes that range from -20 to just above -10, probably averaging -15.5.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
For me, no. If a sub is augmenting 30 and above, in a non linear fashion it might sound boomy and obnoxious. I couldn’t care less about that. As my FR is pretty smooth, I’m more interested in the 30-15hz range. Even if there much less content there, I want to make sure My subs are delivering it when it’s present in the content.
So for me, no this is not an evaluative process with any value.
Ok off thread but I have to tell you this real quick my friend! Finally bit the bullet on the Tv but I got a projector here's a pic of the screen. So NO MORE MAKING FUN OF MY TEENIE WEENIE LIL TV!!! Lol:p
20181202_172450.jpg
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Ok off thread but I have to tell you this real quick my friend! Finally bit the bullet on the Tv but I got a projector here's a pic of the screen. So NO MORE MAKING FUN OF MY TEENIE WEENIE LIL TV!!! Lol:pView attachment 27024
Daaaaayyy uuuuuummm!!!!
Ok. I officially have screen envy. Nice job homes! I’m proud of ya lil buddy!
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Daaaaayyy uuuuuummm!!!!
Ok. I officially have screen envy. Nice job homes! I’m proud of ya lil buddy!
Thanks man my installer will be out here this week to set it up can't wait! I don't want to derail this thread so when I get it running I'll post a thread and show you guys how it looks!
 
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snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks man my installer will be out here this week to set it up can't wait! I don't want to derail this thread so when I get it running I'll post a thread and show you guys how it looks!
Nice!!! Congrats!!!
 

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