KEF Owner's Thread

[snakeeyes]

This guy has problems: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/help-with-kef-r900-issue

I feel for him, but it is funny read...

This is the kind of nightmare that I wish to avoid. Similar to another person with a new Revel here that had a defective tweeter and returned it. It’s easier to return books than towers.

 

[KenM10759]

Did I miss it it was there no mention of checking the bi-wire/bi-amp "Link"? Has the asked KEF to send the local rep (who normally only visits dealers) over to verify there's a problem?

In my 3 years of dealing with KEF, I have found them to be exemplary of what customer service should be. They have sent for free several little things that were missing off the demo model R500's I'd bought from my local dealer when they couldn't be found. And KEF threw in T-shirts for me and my son, pens, key fobs, other swag.

You get nice treatment when you give nice treatment. I don't know if that poor person had been short with KEF people or not, but in general the response you get is often commensurate with the attitude you project.

 

[killdozzer]

I see no reason to upgrade the LS50's other than market pressures. They're incredible. At least, mine are.

I'm just very curious whether there could be similar success with a larger model and a different crossover, leaving much of the rest the same? Like... 11l volume and a 7 inch woofer.

 

[KenM10759]

I'm just very curious whether there could be similar success with a larger model and a different crossover, leaving much of the rest the same? Like... 11l volume and a 7 inch woofer.

That would be nice to see, and a good chance we will. While everyone is busy fawning over the new R series, they are probably already producing the next wireless speaker product.

 

[John Parks]

This is the kind of nightmare that I wish to avoid. Similar to another person with a new Revel here that had a defective tweeter and returned it. It’s easier to return books than towers.

The owner of the speakers finally listed a specific track on FB (he kept going on about tracks by artists, like Alan Jackson, that I had no interest in listening to without a song in mind). It is "The Calling" by Mary Chapin Carpenter (another artist I have never listened to on purpose). The music is recorded rather nicely, but her voice is very close mic'd and very hot. Through my Q750s, I could almost hear a "grating" or "ripping" sound on the chorus like he described, but it is the recording, not the speakers (I verified this through headphones as well). If this person went from an older pair of Martin Logans to the R900 and is listening to these types of recordings, I can see where one might hear something not so nice and bordering on irritating. One of things about my KEFs Is that they do not sugarcoat bad recordings, which is fine, as long as one is prepared for it. Then again, he just may have two defective speakers...

 

[snakeeyes]

The owner of the speakers finally listed a specific track on FB (he kept going on about tracks by artists, like Alan Jackson, that I had no interest in listening to without a song in mind). It is "The Calling" by Mary Chapin Carpenter (another artist I have never listened to on purpose). The music is recorded rather nicely, but her voice is very close mic'd and very hot. Through my Q750s, I could almost hear a "grating" or "ripping" sound on the chorus like he described, but it is the recording, not the speakers (I verified this through headphones as well). If this person went from an older pair of Martin Logans to the R900 and is listening to these types of recordings, I can see where one might hear something not so nice and bordering on irritating. One of things about my KEFs Is that they do not sugarcoat bad recordings, which is fine, as long as one is prepared for it. Then again, he just may have two defective speakers...

It’s a still not fun for anyone to have buyers remorse. I bought a motorcycle and it barely gets ridden. That was a big waste for me.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

The owner of the speakers finally listed a specific track on FB (he kept going on about tracks by artists, like Alan Jackson, that I had no interest in listening to without a song in mind). It is "The Calling" by Mary Chapin Carpenter (another artist I have never listened to on purpose). The music is recorded rather nicely, but her voice is very close mic'd and very hot. Through my Q750s, I could almost hear a "grating" or "ripping" sound on the chorus like he described, but it is the recording, not the speakers (I verified this through headphones as well). If this person went from an older pair of Martin Logans to the R900 and is listening to these types of recordings, I can see where one might hear something not so nice and bordering on irritating. One of things about my KEFs Is that they do not sugarcoat bad recordings, which is fine, as long as one is prepared for it. Then again, he just may have two defective speakers...

Odds for having 2 defective speakers is really low tho. I would say it is either the recording or preference.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

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Now we will never know if the issue was solved or what was causing it, I personally was interested how this ended.

 

[KenM10759]

Too bad. It did get rather nasty though.

Over there, I see the biggest range of humble people to outright snobs to all-in cable elevator debaters. Dealers there who are trying to help get lambasted and accused of just promoting their own interests.

On a completely different note, I have 3 or 4 KEF dealers who participate on my KEF Enthusiasts FB page and at least 3 KEF people. One recently showed what I thought might be coming, and it's a smaller version of an LS50 Wireless. As yet unnamed, it's about the size of the old X300AW desktop speaker, but with a spherical front baffle like LS50. Should be officially announced Nov1, it seems they start with designer Michael Young editions in a fabric wrap in green, red, blue, black, and white. So far we've only seen a couple photos and a 9 second long video, but at (said) 70% the performance of LS50 Wireless for half the cost it should be a winner!

I'm sure there will be many more new KEF products ramping up too.

 

[Matrix8086]

Hi with the release of the KEF R11's, how do you think they would compare to Reference 3's or 5's? Naturally the look is near identical, but importantly it has moved to 12th Generation components.

I have the option to buy a like-new pair of Reference 3's for $8K. Or, the retail on the 11's (REF 5 layout), is only $5K brand new.

I assume the Reference series is built with much higher quality, but that doesn't necessarily reflect quality.

Right now I'm sitting with Monitor Audio Gold 300's, which were $7,000 in the Piano Ebony finish. Perhaps it's not even an upgrade, not sure but am a huge fan of KEF .

 

[KenM10759]

I would JUMP at the chance to get a pair of Reference 3's at that price! They're still better than the new R series in most every way except price, and I believe they're worth the cost.

 

[KenM10759]

So I brought my NAD T758 up to my dealer Saturday afternoon, an hour before they were to close. I planned to leave it for "Tom" to install the AM230 module. He was to be off today (Sunday) and they're closed Mondays, so I expected to leave it and pick up next weekend. He took it right out of my hands and said he'd do it right now. "Go sit and listen to some music for a while."

I headed to the back listening room where they had set up a pair of KEF Q750's to a new Naim Uniti Atom, a line they picked up less than two weeks before. That little "40 watt" streamer/DAC/amp drive the $1500 speakers like a rented mule! Incredible sound, but $3300 is well out of my league right now.

By the time I got done listening to a few tunes, Tom was done. I walked out with it and $549 poorer.

Today I paid another $99 to get the full version of Dirac Live, and ran the app with the supplied mic. I'll do it again when the calibrated UMIK-1 I ordered comes in later this week.

Not one word of a lie, it's like I just bought new speakers! Unreal in stereo mode or more so with video because the R200c center now sounds far better, clearer too. I'll run calibration again with the new mic and with a little more experience using Dirac I expect to get the most out of them.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Hi with the release of the KEF R11's, how do you think they would compare to Reference 3's or 5's? Naturally the look is near identical, but importantly it has moved to 12th Generation components.

I have the option to buy a like-new pair of Reference 3's for $8K. Or, the retail on the 11's (REF 5 layout), is only $5K brand new.

I assume the Reference series is built with much higher quality, but that doesn't necessarily reflect quality.

Right now I'm sitting with Monitor Audio Gold 300's, which were $7,000 in the Piano Ebony finish. Perhaps it's not even an upgrade, not sure but am a huge fan of KEF .

On the weekend I had opportunity to audition R11 and I was impressed by the sound of them as my expectation were really low. This is based on my memory all alone. I heard the Reference 5 couple of years ago in local demo weekend and now they had the new R11. When I heard the Reference 5 my impression was that they were not so great upgrade over R500 I have at home, of course this could be because of the room they were set on as I havent heard them side by side. Now they had the new R11 in new demo room and the sound was quite nice upgrade to R500, again I could not compare them side by side but they sounded really nice. So from my experience with these speakers I would say that R11 are better than Reference 3/5 but most likely many will disagree with me. To me R11 sounds more open and detailed while the older Reference / R500 sound little clinical compared to R11 in my experience.

 

[KenM10759]

Your demo of the Reference 3 or 5 must have been setup wrong because that was not my impression at all. I also heard the new R11's last Friday evening and they are clearly a step-up from my R500's, but still not where the Reference are in terms of overall sonic performance.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Your demo of the Reference 3 or 5 must have been setup wrong because that was not my impression at all. I also heard the new R11's last Friday evening and they are clearly a step-up from my R500's, but still not where the Reference are in terms of overall sonic performance.

Could be the case. I think it must be challenging to setup speakers well for just one weekend in room that has not been made as a listening room.

 

[TLS Guy]

I guess I can wander in, as I am a KEF owner of drivers anyway. I own 8 KEF B 139 drivers, six in use and a couple spare. I also have I think at least one set of the T27 tweeters.

Anyhow these venerable KEF Concerto speakers were up for sale on eBay. 3.5 K for the pair!

Anyhow those were the general inspiration for my Raymond Cooke edition speakers of 2006, in my lower great room.

What I consider an updated version of the concerto.

 

[shadyJ]

I guess I can wander in, as I am a KEF owner of drivers anyway. I own 8 KEF B 139 drivers, six in use and a couple spare. I also have I think at least one set of the T27 tweeters.

Anyhow these venerable KEF Concerto speakers were up for sale on eBay. 3.5 K for the pair!

Anyhow those were the general inspiration for my Raymond Cooke edition speakers of 2006, in my lower great room.

What I consider an updated version of the concerto.

Your updated version looks like its using one of ATC's midrange drivers in the middle there? Also looks like a planar tweeter on top? Also that is an unusual shape for a bass driver cone. I would have guessed it was a passive radiator but I see a port underneath. What bass driver is that?

 

[John Parks]

Your updated version looks like its using one of ATC's midrange drivers in the middle there? Also looks like a planar tweeter on top? Also that is an unusual shape for a bass driver cone. I would have guessed it was a passive radiator but I see a port underneath. What bass driver is that?

 

[TLS Guy]

Your updated version looks like its using one of ATC's midrange drivers in the middle there? Also looks like a planar tweeter on top? Also that is an unusual shape for a bass driver cone. I would have guessed it was a passive radiator but I see a port underneath. What bass driver is that?

Yes, John Parks has it right. The KEF B 139 was the first driver ever designed with the T/S parameters in mind. Raymond Cooke got the parameters right in the sweet spot. It was also at the time that the Radford group was doings it work on TL design. The T/S parameter of the B 139 are right in the sweet spot for TLs. That driver was used in almost all the early TLs and a lot of later ones. It is one of the best bass drivers of all time and highly sought after on eBay. There is also a passive radiator version of this woofer.

Here is a DIY design from the principles of the Radford group published in Hi-Fi News in the sixties. This was designed by John Wight who went on to found TDL loudspeakers.

My TLs using KEF B 139s from 1978. Still excellent speakers.

The midrange dome is actually the Dynaudio D 76 and not the ATC. It is very similar to the ATC unit. One of the best mids ever made.

The planar tweeter is actually a Hi-Fi research unit. They are fine as long as you cross high. Mine is crossed at 4 KHz.

 

[John Parks]

I attended an open house last night at my local KEF dealer, Home Theater Technologies in Colleyville, TX. I got to listen to the new LSX, R3, R5 and R11.

The LSX was very impressive and impressively clear and dynamic from such a small enclosure. There was plenty of bass by its lonesome, but teaming up with an R400b subwoofer created an incredible 2.1 system. I like all of the choices if inputs, especially the addition of Roon as that is what I use at home.

They had the new R3 set up side-by-side with the R300, which was an interesting comparison. The R3's upper midrange was more open and clear (it sounded a lot like the LSX) but the R300's bass was deeper and fuller. The proprietor said it was a function of break-in as the R3s were brand new. If that is true, I would like to go back and have a listen at later point... I could live with either.

The R11s were connected to an Anthem STR integrated amp running ARC. OMG - what a pairing! Yeah, $9500 for both is a bit out of my budget but this is one of the first times where I've heard something in that price range and said, "Yeah, that's totally worth it." The R11s are dangerously close to the References. If I had my druthers, it would be the Reference 1 in my setup, but wow.

They had the R5 out at the kid's table (Sonos Connect) and it was obvious. If they want to sell the R5, they need to set them up with the adult's system. Granted, the fine folks at HTT are perfectly willing to do so - just make sure to ask as the Sonos was not doing them any favors.

There is a demo pair of white R500s that I heard last spring and the owner is offering a smoking deal on them. If I can sell my Q750s for a decent price, I will snatch them or the R300 (in walnut) up.

All in all, it was a fine evening. All that was missing was Johan Coorg, but Tom Rodgers of KEF was very nice and knowledgeable. For my troubles, I was presented a parting gift (something that has been on my radar for a while):

I think I've found my new audio partner!

Edit: What I find amazing is that KEF is willing to sell the R11 for the same price as the outgoing R900! If you have the budget ($5K) and can listen to them in an appropriate environment (i.e., not BestBuy) I believe you will be impressed. I certainly was!