Help with Surround Sound system and Ceiling speakers

[adham]

Hello,

I just moved into a home that has in ceiling speakers in 4 rooms. The family room is also wired for surround sound. House was built in 2006 and everything was installed back then.

Contractors did some paint and drywall work where the wall plates are for the audio system. All of wall plate connecters are located in the family room. I can differentiate between the 2 wall plates. One I see is for the surround system where they sprayed it completely with paint and ruined it. The other is for the ceiling speakers and it clearly wasn't put back together properly as you'll see in the pictures.

Here's my main question.
What do I need to get the ceiling speakers working? As in what receiver or other equipment?

And am I missing a 4 zone connector or do I just need one like pictured?

Where can I get another plate to replace the painted one?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I look forward to your responses.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

The plates can be found anywhere. Home depot, amazon etc. Id be more worried about their choice of wire tho.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Wow! What a horrendous level of original installation work here. I'm really sorry to see that was done in your home by anyone at all. Cat-5 cabling is not designed for speaker wiring and is completely inappropriate. Just as bad is an installation that doesn't even bother to try to do a clean and good job. Much like painters that don't care enough to properly tape off the wall plates before they start their job.

That said, you can get replacements online easily enough.

A 5.1 audio wall plate...
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4012&gclid=Cj0KCQiA597fBRCzARIsAHWby0E29iHYs79rGq96Te-POeTk6JhSbNCpub_38qTKatH3qvWHqI_IjfEaAlTyEALw_wcB

And a 4 speaker distribution wall plate...
https://www.ebay.com/i/183517512437?chn=ps

That 4 speaker distribution wall plate is hard to find. I like the concept of it, but it basically is the same as using a wire nut on all the speaker wires... or in your case, cat-5 cables.

You really want to pull the wall plates off, properly label everything, maybe get some decent wire strippers and cut the wiring back cleanly so it looks decent before putting it all back in.

Then you will need an A/V receiver and figure out how to run audio to the 4 extra speakers. Hopefully they are using impedance matching volume controls. Who knows with the wiring as it is.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Before going to the trouble to replace that speaker-connection panel (the one with the subwoofer jack): More than likely it’s water-based paint, so you cold saturate a towel with water and lay it on it for an hour or so, and good chance you’d be able to get the paint off. Of course, you’d have to first remove the panel from the wall and see if you could get it horizontal so that the towel wouldn’t fall off of it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[adham]

Thanks for all the input! Yes, it looks like a mess and yes they weren't careful at all! But I guess that's what happens when you're rushing to close on a house.

I believe I can clean the wall plates up for the 5.1 channel plate. And then I can cleanly rewire the 4 zone plate.

Any recommendations on what receiver I should be considering? Something that will power the surround sound and the other ceiling speakers throughout the house.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[KenM10759]

I can't believe any installer would use that wire for long runs to speakers. Hopefully it's not tacked down inside the walls and you could use it to pull a good CL-2 or CL-3 cable. Good luck with it all.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

I once used cat5 for speaker cables to 2 in ceiling speakers in my dining room, but I used 1 cable per speaker and twisted the 8 wires together to make 2 wires of 4 each. I later reran real speaker cables and did it right. It sounded fine tho, but that was with 8 wires, not 2. I wouldnt even dream of running any serious speakers on those wires. I wonder if code even allows that?

 

[adham]

So I ended up ordering an Onkyo tx-nr777. It seems like it should put out decent power and also has a second zone which is plenty for now. Not trying to break the bank.

As far as speakers and sub go, what would compliment this receiver using a 5.1 set-up?

I know this has been beaten to death but I can't seem to figure it out. Is there a popular set or combo out there that's affordable yet good?

Looking to spend 500-600 on speakers/sub.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Before we proceed I think we need to be clear on something. Do not use that wiring!

Cat 5 is 24 gauge wiring and anything larger then a home theater in a box speaker I wouldnt even consider using. You just bought a powerful receiver and you might be risking a fire with this setup. Cable that size is meant for things like door bells and internet connections. I wouldnt do it. The resistance is going to be huge and the sound is not gonna be any where near full potential. You might even risk damaging something.

 

[adham]

Before we proceed I think we need to be clear on something. Do not use that wiring!

Cat 5 is 24 gauge wiring and anything larger then a home theater in a box speaker I wouldnt even consider using. You just bought a powerful receiver and you might be risking a fire with this setup. Cable that size is meant for things like door bells and internet connections. I wouldnt do it. The resistance is going to be huge and the sound is not gonna be any where near full potential. You might even risk damaging something.

The 5.1 setup doesn't have the CAT 5 wiring. It's 16 gauge speaker wire. The ceiling speakers and deck speakers have the CAT 5 wiring. I'm not messing with those just yet. I will make sure to replace them when I attempt to work them. For now, I want to set up the surround sound system.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Oh good! I misread the pics then.

 

[adham]

Oh good! I misread the pics then.

Any suggestions on speakers/sub or a set?

 

[adham]

Looking at the Klipsch reference theater pack. It's on sale for $599. I was also looking at the Energy Take Classic 5.1.

I'm sure there are better options out there.

Again, I will be pairing the speakers to an Onkyo tx-nr777.

Looking to spend no more than $600.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Realistically, while people are talking and going crazy about your cabling, just recognize there isn't much that can be done behind the walls at this point. It's almost always completely impossible to re-pull cabling, so just live with it and once it's working, you will likely never (ever) know or care what's back there.

Clean things up the best you can. Be aware that new wall plates aren't terribly expensive if you want to put them in place. Especially for the 5.1 wall plate.

I don't do speaker recommendations. We don't know what's at the other end of all those speaker connections, so are you looking for ceiling speakers, in-wall speakers, or the more typical floor standing speakers or on-wall speakers? You need to let us know on that one so you can get some accurate recommendations. Once you have that information, you may want to start a new thread just asking about the specific speakers you are after. This thread is a bit off course and may not give you the responses you are after. Be aware that people like to bump your budget by 10%-20%, so be prepared to spend a bit over budget for what may be a better sounding speaker.

Also, let people know exactly what you will be listening to, as this may impact recommendations. That is, a lot of music over TV will change things. While TV and movies mainly will shift things another way.

I do recommend checking Accessories4Less.com for deals at any time.

 

[adham]

Realistically, while people are talking and going crazy about your cabling, just recognize there isn't much that can be done behind the walls at this point. It's almost always completely impossible to re-pull cabling, so just live with it and once it's working, you will likely never (ever) know or care what's back there.

Clean things up the best you can. Be aware that new wall plates aren't terribly expensive if you want to put them in place. Especially for the 5.1 wall plate.

I don't do speaker recommendations. We don't know what's at the other end of all those speaker connections, so are you looking for ceiling speakers, in-wall speakers, or the more typical floor standing speakers or on-wall speakers? You need to let us know on that one so you can get some accurate recommendations. Once you have that information, you may want to start a new thread just asking about the specific speakers you are after. This thread is a bit off course and may not give you the responses you are after. Be aware that people like to bump your budget by 10%-20%, so be prepared to spend a bit over budget for what may be a better sounding speaker.

Also, let people know exactly what you will be listening to, as this may impact recommendations. That is, a lot of music over TV will change things. While TV and movies mainly will shift things another way.

I do recommend checking Accessories4Less.com for deals at any time.

Thanks for the reply! Here is a bit more info for you.
I did go ahead and order the 5.1 plate along with wire and banana plugs. Will get that part looking clean. Also ordered new wall plates for where the speakers will connect on the wall.

I have attached pictures of what's behind the on-wall speaker connections for the 5.1 surround system. Looks like all good 16 gauge wiring so I think I'm good there.

Will worry about the CAT 5 wiring and ceiling speakers later on. I'd like to get the 5.1 system working first.

Looking to use on-wall speakers to accommodate the wiring already there. As far as my use goes, I would say TV (lots of sports) and music. Occasional movie here and there.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[adham]

Here's a picture of the room just so you have a better idea. The on-wall speaker wiring is in the corners of the room.

 

[BMXTRIX]

How is video getting to the TV itself? I didn't see any photos of the HDMI running to that location.

Your photos are really helpful, but as always, makes me wish I was there and could walk the room.

I hate the wall plates, but whatever. They work fine.

Definitely start a new post and show the photos of speaker placement. Not sure where your main distribution wall plate is. I don't see it in that last 'room' photo you have. Is it at the front somewhere? At the back?

You will also need to deal with that completely unterminated RG6 cabling. It will need an F-connector put on, or a compression RCA put in place. I like using f-connectors, then a F to RCA converter inside the wall plate. Parts Express sells those so you can swap out RCA-RCA coupler wall plates with F to RCA style. That's really a better way to do things.

An overhead drawing/sketch of the room would be somewhat helpful, but I like that last photo you have as that does a good job showing locations of things. I guess there is some HDMI feed to the right of the fireplace. Looks like a small device is hooked up there already.

 

[adham]

How is video getting to the TV itself? I didn't see any photos of the HDMI running to that location.

Your photos are really helpful, but as always, makes me wish I was there and could walk the room.

I hate the wall plates, but whatever. They work fine.

Definitely start a new post and show the photos of speaker placement. Not sure where your main distribution wall plate is. I don't see it in that last 'room' photo you have. Is it at the front somewhere? At the back?

You will also need to deal with that completely unterminated RG6 cabling. It will need an F-connector put on, or a compression RCA put in place. I like using f-connectors, then a F to RCA converter inside the wall plate. Parts Express sells those so you can swap out RCA-RCA coupler wall plates with F to RCA style. That's really a better way to do things.

An overhead drawing/sketch of the room would be somewhat helpful, but I like that last photo you have as that does a good job showing locations of things. I guess there is some HDMI feed to the right of the fireplace. Looks like a small device is hooked up there already.

Most of the video comes from streaming. I do have HDMI input coming from the right of the fireplace like you saw. I have a fire TV hooked up there.

I plan on using that HDMI connection as the main connection for the receiver. The main distribution wall plate is to the right of the HDMI connection in the corner. So it's close.

As far as the rg6 cable, I bought a RCA converter but it requires soldering. I like your idea better with the f connector and then f to rca connector to the back of the wall plate.

Does the f connector just twist on the rg6 cable? I'd rather not deal with soldering anything.

Would the adapter attached in the pic work after I put a f connector?

The new wall plate has an RCA female connection.

 

[BMXTRIX]

So, F-connectors are generally sold as twist on or compression. Cable companies use them ALL the time, but... geez, maybe post your location and hit up a few more forums or ask around at your job to see if someone has a f-connector compression tool. I mean, I would swing by and do this for free just to be nice. It's a sub $1 connector and the tool to do a top notch job of putting a f-connector on the end of a RG6 cable.

You can get twist on connectors, but... well, I would do that before investing in a compression tool.

Yes, the adapter you showed would work.

But, this is the piece I was talking about.

https://www.parts-express.com/gold-rca-female-to-f-female-with-nut-hex-type--091-1200

Hopefully that link works.

It replaces what comes in the wall plate. Just double check that it'll work before you pull off what comes on the wall plate, since I'm not totally sure what wall plate you actually got.

The adapter you have shown will work, and I use them when I don't have the wall plate connection I linked to, but it is good to use as few adapters as possible, and behind a wall, things can get ugly if there are adapters back there that jiggle loose. Better to terminate 'F-connector' and convert to RCA at the plate, or on the front side of the plate, not behind the wall.

I don't solder, so I feel your pain there. We'll get you there.

 

[adham]

Ok I think I can handle that. I bought the wall plate that you linked earlier in the thread. Hopefully I can pop out the connection on the wall plate and replace it with the connector you linked.