Multichannel Music listening

[Ras777]

This past week I have been experimenting with my new Denon receiver. After running Audessey XT32 and making my own tweaks I noticed that when I play audio CD in multichannel mode my surrounds are completely overpowering my LCR’s. I compensated for this by changing the speaker levels for the LCR’s to +9 dB to get them balanced out. Is this the correct way to adjust for this and why was so much compensation needed. Audessey got all my distances right and all speakers were level matched. I tried using other modes but other then stereo and I don’t like what they sound like and I prefer to utilize all speakers when playing music.

 

[lovinthehd]

This past week I have been experimenting with my new Denon receiver. After running Audessey XT32 and making my own tweaks I noticed that when I play audio CD in multichannel mode my surrounds are completely overpowering my LCR’s. I compensated for this by changing the speaker levels for the LCR’s to +9 dB to get them balanced out. Is this the correct way to adjust for this and why was so much compensation needed. Audessey got all my distances right and all speakers were level matched. I tried using other modes but other then stereo and I don’t like what they sound like and I prefer to utilize all speakers when playing music.

Sounds like you're using a multich stereo mode perhaps? As opposed to a surround upmixer?

Ps I would turn down the surround levels instead of increasing mains. If you really want to listen this way....

 

[Ras777]

I tried using the surround upmixers but I don’t like the way music sounds through my surrounds when I’m in those modes. The Surrounds sound like they are lacking bass. And in multi channel mode I am getting more lower end from my surrounds. Is the imbalance between my surrounds and the LCR’s typical of multi channel mode. What mode do you prefer to use when you are listening to music?

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Are the levels the same when listened at the mic calibration spot? Or are you listening in various areas of the room?

 

[Ras777]

Yes, all speakers are at 75db at the MLP when I run the test tone. When I go to Multi-channel mode and play an audio disc the surrounds completely drown out the LCR's at the MLP. Is this typical of this mode? When I use different modes like Dolby Surround upmixer or DTX Neural:X upmixer the surrounds have the opposite effect and levels seem very low.

 

[lovinthehd]

Personally I do not use the multi-ch stereo modes (except maybe for a crowded party), I use an upmixer, usually Dolby PLIIx, if if I'm listening to 2ch music in a multi-channel mode. More often I simply use actual multi-ch music (from bluray, dvd, SACD). Surround isn't supposed to be equal from each speaker, that's part of the effect, the surrounds more provide ambience generally.

What mains and surround speakers do you have? Are the surrounds as capable as your mains? Seems that plays a role, too IME. Can't say I've had the experience where I've been tempted to raise mains by 9dB, tho.

I tried using the surround upmixers but I don’t like the way music sounds through my surrounds when I’m in those modes. The Surrounds sound like they are lacking bass. And in multi channel mode I am getting more lower end from my surrounds. Is the imbalance between my surrounds and the LCR’s typical of multi channel mode. What mode do you prefer to use when you are listening to music?

 

[Ras777]

I am listening to older two-channel CD's, not sure if that has anything to do with it. I was just surprised to see such a big difference in levels with that mode. I could probably live with DTS Neural X, I think it sounded the best. I will keep experimenting with this new receiver hopefully I will find a mode I enjoy.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am listening to older two-channel CD's, not sure if that has anything to do with it. I was just surprised to see such a big difference in levels with that mode. I could probably live with DTS Neural X, I think it sounded the best. I will keep experimenting with this new receiver hopefully I will find a mode I enjoy.

Source recording quality always plays a role. Mostly I listen to what could be called older two channel CDs, though

Are your surrounds comfortable competing with your mains, though? What are they? Most reports are that the Dolby Surround upmixer works quite well....especially if you have the ceiling speakers in place (I don't).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes, all speakers are at 75db at the MLP when I run the test tone. When I go to Multi-channel mode and play an audio disc the surrounds completely drown out the LCR's at the MLP. Is this typical of this mode? When I use different modes like Dolby Surround upmixer or DTX Neural:X upmixer the surrounds have the opposite effect and levels seem very low.

I’d say that’s pretty typical. Those type modes are “usually” tailored for ambiance, and as HD said parties. Most music is recorded in, and for 2ch playback and most of us dislike those types of modes, although I do understand the attraction. If you were to put yourself in the center of all the speakers vs sitting in the LP, I think you’d find them to be balanced. The reason their so loud is because the output level is the same for all speakers front and back, because all channel stereo mode isn’t for the LP as a normal “surround” mode.
Also, you should never trim up to +9 as opposed to lowering levels for speakers that are too loud.

Also, the reason the levels seem low on other modes is that the front of the room is where the soundstage and imaging is. As if you’re watching a band live. The surrounds are mainly for ambiance when listening to music. That’s why 2ch guys go ape$hit for proper speaker placement and toe in etc. Movies are different, in that the surrounds are for portraying off screen pans, and directional cues associated with action off screen. Modern soundtracks are very busy in all channels. Like HD, I sometimes like pliix for certain electronic music. It’s almost like a movie soundtrack with sounds moving all around directionally. I don’t get that with all channel stereo...

 

[Ras777]

Thanks for the explanation its making more sense now. All trim levels are back to normal. lovinthehd all my speakers are Aperion Grands towers in front and the bookshelves in the back. I know that they don't get much cred here but I think the sound great and the bookshelves are capable.

 

[snakeeyes]

So multichannel audio in an all channel dsp upmix can at best sound like a car stereo. This works for casual listening. Yamaha has a DSP that can pull this off pretty well called 7/9/11 channel stereo depending on model. (The other Yamaha DSPs are dumb and sound like a lot of echoes by the way). I have not heard good things about Denon receivers doing well with this, but maybe they do.

Real multichannel audio on a Blu-ray audio of a concert is actually pretty cool. Hoping these keep getting released.

Real Multichannel on SACD and DVDA and DTS 5.1 music vary by disc. Some are excellent and add to the experience and others sound odd like they were mixed incorrectly. I like to buy these used since they are a bit of a gamble.

As far as overhead, I plan to add 4 ceiling speakers soon to achieve 5.1.4 for my theater room. I’ll find out soon.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the explanation its making more sense now. All trim levels are back to normal. lovinthehd all my speakers are Aperion Grands towers in front and the bookshelves in the back. I know that they don't get much cred here but I think the sound great and the bookshelves are capable.

LOL just noticed your signature (or was that there before? ). At least you have several ways of finding what choices please you. Aperion I think gets cred, they're just not all that well known OTOH (altho I live about two hours away from them it seems by their area code). Curious,, do the ceiling speakers also activate in the multich stereo mode?

 

[Ras777]

They do but I need to get within 2 feet of them to actually hear them. It’s the same with DTS Neural X and Dolby Surround. After reading Will Lemmerhirt ‘s post I have a new appreciation for listening to 2 channel music in DTS Neural X. I think I was just expecting my surrounds to play at the same level as my LCR’s. The Aperion Grand bookshelves are great sounding speakers. Many people use them as there fronts and I think I was just wanting them to play more of a role.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's no real advantage to listening to the same channels in multiples in the same room except volume perhaps. Interesting about the ceiling speakers' volume....

 

[2channel lover]

I am listening to older two-channel CD's, not sure if that has anything to do with it. I was just surprised to see such a big difference in levels with that mode. I could probably live with DTS Neural X, I think it sounded the best. I will keep experimenting with this new receiver hopefully I will find a mode I enjoy.

I think you've nailed it...stereo CD playing back thru multi-ch matrix on the AVR typically you get something a little funky. If you have a multi-ch bluray try that, the results might be better.

 

[PENG]

Also keep in mind that if you have surround and surround back speakers, then the front left have to compete with two speakers on each side of left and right. As well, the surround bookshelf speakers don't have much bass so their mid and high could be more imposing than the more balance spectrum that the FL and FR play.

 

[snakeeyes]

Also keep in mind that if you have surround and surround back speakers, then the front left have to compete with two speakers on each side of left and right. As well, the surround bookshelf speakers don't have much bass so their mid and high could be more imposing than the more balance spectrum that the FL and FR play.

Think those dual HSU VTF15 subs can be setup to blend well with his surround speakers. That’s what I would try at least. Maybe try adjusting the crossover at the AVR up to 90 or 100hz etc depending on the speaker.

 

[sterling shoote]

Use your system to get the real deal, multi-channel SACD. If your BD Player will play multi-channel SACDs, just output via HDMI from BD Player to HDMI input on your AVR. The first 3 pages of Amazon SACD listings show 32 new 2017 and 2018 hybrid SACDs with multi-channel layer. Bottom line you just can't get the breadth and depth of multi-channel from DSP processing of a stereo CD.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Also keep in mind that if you have surround and surround back speakers, then the front left have to compete with two speakers on each side of left and right. As well, the surround bookshelf speakers don't have much bass so their mid and high could be more imposing than the more balance spectrum that the FL and FR play.

Not so sure... If they’re all level matched, normal surround sound listening modes should sound balanced. Theoretically they wouldn’t be competing. However, in an “all channel stereo” configuration, I would be inclined to agree. Also, content would factor in as well.

FWIW, my system is currently 7.3.(.4almost lol)

 

[Joe B]

SACD playback is designed by the recording engineers to put you into the sound field, to make the experience much more like you were actually there at the recording session. I have never heard my Anthem's DSP options produce anything at the same level of quality. I've got to agree with @sterling shoote, "Bottom line you just can't get the breadth and depth of multi-channel from DSP processing of a stereo CD. "