American audio industry may suffer a blow..

[Danzilla31]

This thread inspired us to look more closely into this situation and write an article about it.

The president’s escalating tariff war is wreaking havoc on American businesses that rely on Chinese manufacturing and supply chains. The results are higher prices for consumers, and real risk to small audio businesses, which may not be able to survive in the current climate. Makers of consumer loudspeakers, wireless headphones, high-end audiophile electronics, and professional recording gear are beginning to speak out about how these tariffs are affecting their businesses.

Could this spell the end of the American-made loudspeaker manufacturing business that may have no choice but to produce MORE not less of their products overseas to offset the costs on tariffs for globally sourced parts?

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Read: Trump Tariffs are Bad for the Audio Business

Man Gene this whole situation definetly has got me bummed. I spoke to RSL awhile back while making a purchase from them and on there new CG5 line and Howard mentioned that this was making an impact on them. But he thought they had found a way around it. Those guys are awesome I love that company and it sucks how this is affecting companies like these. Ironically this tariff isn't helping the small business or average consumer. It's doing the opposite. Only big enough businesses that can eat the cost can shoulder through. Small innovative businesses have to take the hit and there consumers with them. Hope a solution comes soon

 

[pewternhrata]

Man Gene this whole situation definetly has got me bummed. I spoke to RSL awhile back while making a purchase from them and on there new CG5 line and Howard mentioned that this was making an impact on them. But he thought they had found a way around it. Those guys are awesome I love that company and it sucks how this is affecting companies like these. Ironically this tariff isn't helping the small business or average consumer. It's doing the opposite. Only big enough businesses that can eat the cost can shoulder through. Small innovative businesses have to take the hit and there consumers with them. Hope a solution comes soon

While I agree BUT, even small businesses are money hungry. Why must we rely on production in China to fuel the industry...o wait, cheap labor so they make $$$ off consumers.

 

[Danzilla31]

While I agree BUT, even small businesses are money hungry. Why must we rely on production in China to fuel the industry...o wait, cheap labor so they make $$$ off consumers.

I also agree with your point BUT I still question the logic of this approach by our president. It feels like gun control to me. If we were going to do something about it that should have started about 20 to 30 years ago. Now good luck trying to get a handle on it. Its been left unchecked for so long there's no way your getting them off of the streets. Its not a realistic policy now because its too late for it too work. Trying to just force it too happen is costly futile and keeping people blindsided from finding solutions that might help better.

I feel this situation is the same way if we were going to keep business and production in America amd keep a check on foreign companies gaining advantages on trade. This should have been implemented a long time ago. Now it's too late for an approach like this too work.

The entire world economy not just ours adapted to this and now trying to force it back just isn't possible. It's not going to work. We can't move the clock back to what could have been. At least that's my take on it.

As for your other statement it's a catch 22. Yeah companies are using cheap labor but some of those savings are passed on to the consumer. Set production and everything back up here. And well forums like this would have a much smaller population. The price of admission would just be extremely high. It's kind off a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Both sides have they're good they're bad and they're ugly

 

[gene]

While I agree BUT, even small businesses are money hungry. Why must we rely on production in China to fuel the industry...o wait, cheap labor so they make $$$ off consumers.

The tariff doesn't just relate to production in China. My understanding in talking to some audio companies is that any parts that are globally sourced in a product will subject the finished product to the tarrif even if said product is built in America. Basic speaker parts ALL come from overseas. This has far reaching impacts more than POTUS is capable of understanding.

 

[shadyJ]

The tariff doesn't just relate to production in China. My understanding in talking to some audio companies is that any parts that are globally sourced in a product will subject the finished product to the tarrif even if said product is built in America. Basic speaker parts ALL come from overseas. This has far reaching impacts more than POTUS is capable of understanding.

That goes along with what I am being told too. Speakers that are manufactured outside of China are still going to get squeezed by the tariffs.

One other point that I think people get wrong about this president is that they think he just doesn't understand the economics of this or that situation, and if only he understood he would correct his course. That is a total misreading of this president. It's not that he doesn't understand (although he well might not understand) but more importantly he doesn't care. Does he seem like a guy who worries about the little people whom his actions might hurt? He was elected precisely for his lack of compassion, not because of his concern for the well-being of other people. Many of the dumb US electorate misread his viciousness for some kind of toughness and voted for him, while others correctly interpreted his viciousness and pulled the lever for him anyway because his viciousness mirrors their own.

 

[lovinthehd]

The tariff doesn't just relate to production in China. My understanding in talking to some audio companies is that any parts that are globally sourced in a product will subject the finished product to the tarrif even if said product is built in America. Basic speaker parts ALL come from overseas. This has far reaching impacts more than POTUS is capable of understanding.

Just to clarify, in that if imported components used are subject to the higher tariff, yes, the cost of the product is affected. The tariff would not be applied on the final product after assembly in the US, though. Although if they export said assembled product they could apply for a refund of duties paid on components....like some of the high end wire guys do on the wire they get from China

 

[haraldo]

That goes along with what I am being told too. Speakers that are manufactured outside of China are still going to get squeezed by the tariffs.

One other point that I think people get wrong about this president is that they think he just doesn't understand the economics of this or that situation, and if only he understood he would correct his course. That is a total misreading of this president. It's not that he doesn't understand (although he well might not understand) but more importantly he doesn't care. Does he seem like a guy who worries about the little people whom his actions might hurt? He was elected precisely for his lack of compassion, not because of his concern for the well-being of other people. Many of the dumb US electorate misread his viciousness for some kind of toughness and voted for him, while others correctly interpreted his viciousness and pulled the lever for him anyway because his viciousness mirrors their own.

Is it not so that Potus will only go with policies that essentially benefit himself or his close circle?

Like the doings with Mohammed bin Salman that benefits his middle east advisor with close friendly ties to the Saudi prince?

Trump seem to bring corruption to an unprecedented level

 

[Drunkpenguin]

This is the part that bothers me. All tarrifs and taxes effect the poor and the middle class only. Its been this way my entire life, but it bothers me how many people never seem to see it coming. This will never create new jobs. It just raises prices on parts so manufacturers and resellers raise their prices to compensate. The only one paying more for anything is me when I pull out my wallet. I still want that new subwoofer (or whatever) so I buy it anyway. It took the same number of employees to order the parts, build the parts, assemble the parts, and ship the final product. How does this create jobs? Someone educate me.

 

[gene]

Just to clarify, in that if imported components used are subject to the higher tariff, yes, the cost of the product is affected. The tariff would not be applied on the final product after assembly in the US, though. Although if they export said assembled product they could apply for a refund of duties paid on components....like some of the high end wire guys do on the wire they get from China

This is what i have heard from several loudspeaker manufacturers:

if the new tariff stays the way it is currently written - it will enable the importing of a finished speaker from China with no tariffs. But if you import the parts and build it here, you pay a 25% tariff. In other words... it will have exactly the opposite effect that was intended.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is what i have heard from several loudspeaker manufacturers:

I hadn't reviewed the HTS codes affected until just now. Feels too much like work and I retired from this crap But, I was curious.

Loudspeakers/drivers break down into three HTSUS classifications:

Loudspeakers, whether or not mounted in their enclosures:
- Single loudspeakers, mounted in their enclosures 8518.21.0000 normal MFN (most favored nation, pretty much any one but N.Korea and Cuba) rate of duty 1.2%
-Multiple loudspeakers, mounted in the same enclosure 8518.22.0000 normal mfn rate of duty 1.2%
- Other 8518.29.8000 normal mfn rate of duty 1.2%

(there's a fourth classification 8518.29.4000 for these specific drivers " Without housing, having a frequency range of 300 Hz to 3.4 kHz with a diameter of not exceeding 50 mm, for telecommunication use" which is duty free from MFN countries)

All three of these are eligible for various free trade agreements (FTA) for duty-free treatment, but I don''t see Chinese origin products being eligible for any FTA

I'd need specific descriptions of other components to determine classification and duty rates for each component. I looked up loudspeaker enclosures which are considered parts of loudspeakers and subject to HTS 8518.90.8100 at 1.2% but with a footnote indicating also subject to special HTS 9903.88.03 for an additional 10% duty (which could change in time if the increases are staged as I believe I've read).

That's at least what appears to be the up to date info at hts.usitc.gov

 

[everettT]

Happy Thanksgiving! Ya I know ... food and family and good tunes! Everyone enjoy

 

[haraldo]

Again.... It's very alarming that there is a president doing these things......

Trump Wanted to Order Justice Dept. to Prosecute Comey and Clinton

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/us/politics/president-trump-justice-department.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

 

[lovinthehd]

Again.... It's very alarming that there is a president doing these things......

Trump Wanted to Order Justice Dept. to Prosecute Comey and Clinton

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/us/politics/president-trump-justice-department.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

We consider a whole day without him doing something stupid/scary/embarassing a good day!

 

[haraldo]

We consider a whole day without him doing something stupid/scary/embarassing a good day!

Good idea

 

[KEW]

We consider a whole day without him doing something stupid/scary/embarassing a good day!

I'll just consider any day he doesn't do any damage a good day!
Those days are rare enough!
Including stupid/scary is just too high of a bar!

 

[gene]

“The Trump tariffs negatively affect RBH Sound in numerous ways, from raw costs of materials for loudspeaker components to where our products are produced. Much like Harley Davidson, which announced it would need to INCREASE overseas production of its motorcycles to offset the tariff increase, we are finding ourselves in a similar situation with regards to product we SELL to China. In a meeting with our China distributor (which sells our U.S.-assembled product in China), we were told they would likely reduce, if not stop, purchasing the RBH products that were coming from the U.S. due to the retaliatory tariffs that have be enacted there. They said they may have to look to European-made products to replace our products. Thus far, it looks as though the best solution to try salvaging our sales into China is to have MORE of the products we sell to China, made in China. Historically, China has been one of the best markets for our U.S. made/assembled products. The trade war is also negatively affecting our U.S. based production. Time will tell how this will affect profitability and sales in the long run.”

— Roger B. Hassing, President of RBH Sound

 

[pewternhrata]

This is the part that bothers me. All tarrifs and taxes effect the poor and the middle class only. Its been this way my entire life, but it bothers me how many people never seem to see it coming. This will never create new jobs. It just raises prices on parts so manufacturers and resellers raise their prices to compensate. The only one paying more for anything is me when I pull out my wallet. I still want that new subwoofer (or whatever) so I buy it anyway. It took the same number of employees to order the parts, build the parts, assemble the parts, and ship the final product. How does this create jobs? Someone educate me.

Really curious to see how much will trickle down to consumers. Just because a products tariff was increased by 15%, it does not mean the company will increase the consumers cost by 15% dont get me wrong, prices will most likely go up, but were talking 1st world problems on audio equipment (my $1000 sub may now cost $1100, really?) 1st world problems with majority of consumer goods, a bunch of garbage we don't really need but hey we have $ so we'll buy it.
I think a lot of the media is creating havoc on the consumers because they (consumers) have no clue how tariffs work. "CNN said I'll never be able to afford solar panels due to the tariffs" quiet down, 'you' weren't going to buy them in the 1st place.
End costs on say, new home construction, that's going to mostly be affected by market value, not the cost of materials, new home construction goes up every year regardless.

 

[lovinthehd]

— Roger B. Hassing, President of RBH Sound

No surprise, one of the points of many trade agreements were to enable more US exports.

 

[shadyJ]

Really curious to see how much will trickle down to consumers. Just because a products tariff was increased by 15%, it does not mean the company will increase the consumers cost by 15% dont get me wrong, prices will most likely go up, but were talking 1st world problems on audio equipment (my $1000 sub may now cost $1100, really?) 1st world problems with majority of consumer goods, a bunch of garbage we don't really need but hey we have $ so we'll buy it.
I think a lot of the media is creating havoc on the consumers because they (consumers) have no clue how tariffs work. "CNN said I'll never be able to afford solar panels due to the tariffs" quiet down, 'you' weren't going to buy them in the 1st place.
End costs on say, new home construction, that's going to mostly be affected by market value, not the cost of materials, new home construction goes up every year regardless.

You are right, we don't need an audio industry in the USA since it is not critical to human survival. I guess we can just shut down this industry without having to worry about it. It's only thousands of jobs for a hobby that hundreds of thousands of people have a passion for. But I am sure that whatever damage is done is well worth whatever vague end point that Trump is after, which isn't likely anything more than the appearance of toughness.

 

[shadyJ]

No surprise, one of the points of many trade agreements were to enable more US exports.

Once Chinese businesses turns to other solutions for US imports, not all of them will return to US business once these tariffs end. I'm guessing a fair bit of the damage being done here will be permanent- but not to anyone outside of the USA though.