The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Many people want to know if there is a significant difference. So this could be informative.

The Equalizer 2014 BD, DTS-HD MA BD up-mixed with DTS Neural:X versus Dolby Atmos BD.

First, the ATMOS BD tracks are not the same as the DTSHDMA.

Now there are some scenes on the DTSHDMA upmixed with NeuralX that sound extremely similar. So we could say these are almost identical. For example toward the end of the film’s climax from 1:57:00 to 2:00:00, I can clearly hear the water sprinkler pouring down from overhead. There are some other scenes like thunder, music, birds from overhead that sound just the same.

But there are many scenes that are clearly different.

25:40 At Home, Inner-voices overhead
ATMOS: Top Right (male), Top Center (female)
DTSNX: voices mainly come from ground rear surrounds

37:20 Plane engine overhead
ATMOS: clearly sounds overhead
DTSNX: sound comes from ground rear speakers.

42:35 Car on overhead bridge
ATMOS: pans from Top Right to top left
DTSNX: Sound comes from ground rear speakers

1:00:20 Store Sliding Door
ATMOS: pans up to Top Left
DTSNX: Sound comes from ground Left rear speaker

1:08:20 - 1:09:30 Train Overhead
ATMOS: pans Top Left to Top Right
DTSNX: comes from ground Surround speakers

1:30:20 Two helicopters overhead
ATMOS: pans Top Right to Top Left
DTSNX: Sound comes from ground surround speakers

1:42:42 Music Overhead from Intercom
ATMOS: clearly comes from ceiling speakers
DTSNX: comes from ground surround

1:46:08 lights shut off overhead
ATMOS: pans among the 4 ceiling speakers
DTSNX: Sound from ground surround speakers

1:54:25 - 1:55:00 bullets ricochet overhead
ATMOS: bounce from one ceiling speaker to the next
DTSNX: Sound from ground surround speakers

1:56:33 lights turn on overhead
ATMOS: pan around the 4 ceiling speakers
DTSNX: Sound from ground surround speakers

Overall I was very impressed with NeuralX, which is no longer a surprise to me since both DSU and NeuralX are excellent.

As I’ve said before, I think NeuralX and DSU have done things that are even better than some DTSX and ATMOS contents, especially DTSX .

DSU and NeuralX can take TrueHD and DTSHDMA and turn them into sounds that rival many ATMOS and most DTSX contents I’ve seen.

I mentioned the overhead effects in The Dark Knight Rises using NeuralX. The scene where the Batwing emerges from the dark ally is very impressive and sounds better than any DTSX contents I’ve seen.

However, when compared to some great ATMOS BDs, DSU and NeuralX aren’t quite as good, although some scenes are just as good (water pouring down from sprinkler system toward end of Equalizer).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh, also, the Equalizer ATMOS BD is about 5dB louder than the DTSHDMA BD, so I had to increase the volume on the DTSHDMA BD by 5dB.

 

[andyblackcat]

Oh, also, the Equalizer ATMOS BD is about 5dB louder than the DTSHDMA BD, so I had to increase the volume on the DTSHDMA BD by 5dB.

I shall be re-equalizing this in few Atmos days time as seen it before only in Dolby Stereo 424 so I'm sort of familiar with it.

 

[Bookmark]

Oh, also, the Equalizer ATMOS BD is about 5dB louder
than the DTSHDMA BD, so I had to increase the volume on the DTSHDMA BD by 5dB.

Thank you very much for that. It probably speaks to my compromised layout that most of the "ground surround" conflation is down to my rears not being entirely level with the fronts and employing heights rather than overhead, perhaps. I don't know if it's 5bB down for me, but compared to San Andreas it would definitely be.

 

[andyblackcat]

Yes of course thank you, AcuDefTechGuy for taking your time at no doubt replaying the same scene over and over again as that is what I do.

 

[andyblackcat]

Enemy Mine (1985)
Dolby Stereo 4.0 - Dolby DSU / Lucasfilm Ltd THX Sound System / JBL professional

Playing with Sony BPD S550 as the Panasonic THX player still have Alien Covenant, in it.

3/1/.0 offset -4db

Movie has monaural discrete surround only.

The rear back active which seems to be extracted from the nowadays usual side surrounds and placed on the back wall in mono? I'm listening, yep solid pure discrete mono.

Un-mute the overhead surrounds which is getting its sound information from the LR fronts which again seems distracting because I know what this DSU is doing it may fool a lot of other people but ain't fooling me.

Would have been better if the Dolby DSU was smarter at knowing this movie is 4.0 and only should expand on the surrounds only with some above active and below on the floor of course otherwise what is the point? Must I do everything myself.

Really I like the first 20 minutes then I like to play it from the start again.

I had to lower down the manual EQ levels so to get it near close to match with back surrounds and lower down that 1.14Khz alarm sound on the DCX2496 equally for LCR even thou it only sounds on LR fronts and mono surrounds.

The rain thunder lightening effects chapter 5, 0:13:43. with a little raise of the channel levels under Option on remote on screen menu. Raised each Height 1 Height 2 by 2.5db.

Getting the middle ranges HF horns to be tonally within shade of few db in frequency level of the surrounds is the key to part of it so the surrounds don't overkill in loudness cursing audio masking.

I noticed when switching Amp Assign under - Layout shuffling the height speakers around in the processor the frequency levels need to EQ as some are in default position while the other pair that was adjusted in another -Layout positioning is unchanged. But not really noticing anything groundbreaking with the "-Layout" settings.

I just leave it in this usual setting mode.

Now the end credits is interesting listening if one happens to have the DVD region 1 or I have the region 2, what is that strange noise on the mono surrounds at the end? No I don't think I need the bluray with dtshdma 4.0 the film was released in Dolby A-type back in 1985.

Edit: Expanding on this again with Neural:X it seems to have the music overhead at the opening of the film then when some sound effects happen they appear on the overheads but strangely when some of the music score is playing during the space battle between Humans and Dracs there appears to be some sort I say it again some sort of signal gating that is shutting off the music from coming out the overheads at that point in the movie. This doesn't have anything to do with this Metadata? Its strange how its filtered out with dtsNeural:X but not with the Dolby DSU.

 

[PENG]

This thread is getting a little long to read through.. I am considering jury rigging my idling Minimus 7 and Polk satellite (RM6005 iirc) just to get some feel, before finalizing what speakers to get. So I will need a BR title that has "maximum" Atmos effects for those tiny speakers. Any suggestions?

 

[Bookmark]

Any of the "Good" or "Recommended" from the 1st page list is a reasonable starting point, should you have any of those handy. Netflix and Prime may also be an option, just search dolby atmos, they don't do dts:x, and it won't quite be full Atmos, but it can work fine,

I have been happy with most of them, but it's always a work in progress with me, endlessly fiddling positions and options.

Give it a shot

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

need a BR title that has "maximum" Atmos effects

Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolution would be my suggestion.

Also “Pride, Prejudice, and Zombies” and “The Equalizer”.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes of course thank you, AcuDefTechGuy for taking your time at no doubt replaying the same scene over and over again as that is what I do.

That takes some dedication. Don’t think I’ll be doing that anytime soon.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you very much for that. It probably speaks to my compromised layout that most of the "ground surround" conflation is down to my rears not being entirely level with the fronts and employing heights rather than overhead, perhaps. I don't know if it's 5bB down for me, but compared to San Andreas it would definitely be.

If 2 of the “ground surround speakers” were mounted up in the ceiling along with the 4 ATMOS speakers, maybe I would not be able to tell the difference.
So maybe we should mount 4 ATMOS speakers in the ceiling plus 2 additional ground surround speakers in the ceiling for DSU and NeuralX. Then there would really be no need for ATMOS and especially DTSX discs.

 

[andyblackcat]

This thread is getting a little long to read through.. I am considering jury rigging my idling Minimus 7 and Polk satellite (RM6005 iirc) just to get some feel, before finalizing what speakers to get. So I will need a BR title that has "maximum" Atmos effects for those tiny speakers. Any suggestions?

If I had some cotton thread I think it would be longer than this thread.

 

[PENG]

Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolution would be my suggestion.

Also “Pride, Prejudice, and Zombies” and “The Equalizer”.

Thank you, but Ouch! I have them in regular BR already, would like to watch something I have not watched yet.

 

[snakeeyes]

Thank you, but Ouch! I have them in regular BR already, would like to watch something I have not watched yet.

You have BD of all 3 matrix and PP & Z and EQ1 already?

I have matrix trilogy in regular BD and the other titles in UHD.

 

[Bookmark]

25:40 At Home, Inner-voices overhead
ATMOS: Top Right (male),Top Center (female)

Just a minor point, I won't bother checking them all. I am still immensely grateful you did this as it is a way for us all to compare results. Dts is 7.1

Fairground starting 25:18, interior 25:27 ending 25:47
Denzel in the fairground, music front and overhead with ambient children voices. Zap/jet/Whoosh noise left to right, transferring to interior room.
Chloe first top left, then top right along with Denzel which moves backwards right side and finally Haley directly overhead.

Jet Landing starting 37:11, ending 37.48
Denzel, interior room, switching off the TV, Jet landing, back right to front left, majority overhead with a mix on the front, mainly left. boom sound, engine wind down, Teddy walking to the car and then dialogue entering the car. Jet engine finally disappears.

Car overhead bridge. 41:02, ending 42:42
Truck moves off centre to left, honks top middle left, scooter back left to right, maybe both sets of rears.
Denzel walking to Ralphie's mum's restaurant. Door closing behind back right with Denzel and Ralphie greeting. Radio upper left, ambient traffic noise at the back. 42:06. Music, bass pulses across top fronts, the car/SUV rattles(train like) past the foreground fence from the mid rear overhead, Then the SUV moves into the yard, unseen traffic behind moving right to left, back overhead. Cement truck moves in from the front left.

Do you think we may have different versions?

 

[Bookmark]

but Ouch! I have them in regular BR already,

The regulars work too on an up mix and you will want to give that a go too.

 

[snakeeyes]

I like to get UHD rentals from Red Box.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just a minor point, I won't bother checking them all. I am still immensely grateful you did this as it is a way for us all to compare results. Dts is 7.1
Fairground starting 25:18, interior 25:27 ending 25:47
Denzel in the fairground, music front and overhead with ambient children voices. Zap/jet/Whoosh noise left to right, transferring to interior room.
Chloe first top left, then top right along with Denzel which moves backwards right side and finally Haley directly overhead.
Jet Landing starting 37:11, ending 37.48
Denzel, interior room, switching off the TV, Jet landing, back right to front left, majority overhead with a mix on the front, mainly left. boom sound, engine wind down, Teddy walking to the car and then dialogue entering the car. Jet engine finally disappears.
Car overhead bridge. 41:02, ending 42:42
Truck moves off centre to left, honks top middle left, scooter back left to right, maybe both sets of rears.
Denzel walking to Ralphie's mum's restaurant. Door closing behind back right with Denzel and Ralphie greeting. Radio upper left, ambient traffic noise at the back. 42:06. Music, bass pulses across top fronts, the car/SUV rattles(train like) past the foreground fence from the mid rear overhead, Then the SUV moves into the yard, unseen traffic behind moving right to left, back overhead. Cement truck moves in from the front left.
Do you think we may have different versions?

One thing we’re sure about is that we do have different setup.

My much smaller 8” ceiling speakers are about 14 FT away and they do have to compete with much bigger badder ground speakers that are a lot closer to my ears.

That’s why I couldn’t hear as much overhead on “San Andreas” during most action scenes, yet you could hear all the overhead just fine on “San Andreas”.

As I told @PENG , it’s good to have your ATMOS speakers close to you.

It’s the same reason I was never impressed with any commercial ATMOS theaters because maybe the ceiling speakers were too far away and I was never able to easily clearly hear the ATMOS speakers. All I heard we’re the ground speakers and subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you, but Ouch! I have them in regular BR already, would like to watch something I have not watched yet.

Try upmixing with DSU on the TrueHD BD and NeuralX on the DTSHDMA BD.

With ATMOS speakers close to you, you might not even have to buy any ATMOS and especially DTSX BDs.

But I think it’s good for everyone to compare at least one movie between ATMOS vs upmix with DSU/NeuralX.

For me (my setup), when comparing The Equalizer ATMOS vs NeuralX, the difference was significant for some scenes, while insignificant for other scenes. But for someone else, the difference may be absolutely insignificant for every scene.

When I was comparing Jason Bourne in DTSX vs upmix with NeuralX, the difference was insignificant, maybe even the same sound.

Bottom line, as some of us have found out for ourselves, DSU and NeuralX are the real deal!

Have you seen Pride and Prejudice and Zombies?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We’ve talked about ATMOS speaker placements at the beginning of this thread - certain angles are recommended.

But after watching movies in ATMOS and DTSX and upmixing with DSU and NeuralX, the salient thing to me about ATMOS speaker placement is that you place them so that you can easily hear them and not have to compete with much bigger badder louder speakers, even though you level match all the speakers.

The salient thing is NOT getting that 45 degree angle in front and behind you. It’s about being able to effortlessly, easily, and clearly hear those ATMOS speakers even when all the bigger badder speakers are blazing away.