The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

Do Separates (Preamps or Pre-pros + Amps) Sound Better Than AVRs in Direct/Bypass Modes?

  • Yes, Separates sound better than AVRs

    Votes: 40 47.6%
  • No, Separates and AVRs sound about the same

    Votes: 22 26.2%
  • No, Separates and AVRs sound about the same when they are similar in price range

    Votes: 22 26.2%

  • Total voters
    84
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Which crowns do you have? Or do you still have them?
The 1002's XLS series yes I still have them there staying the Emotiva XPA-5 is going. Next year I will move up to all Crown XLS with the 2002's for the fronts for the SVS ultra towers the 1502's for the surrounds which will be the prime towers and the 1002's will be moved to running the heights the C34e's. At that time I'll flip the UPA-7 as well.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
The 1002's XLS series yes I still have them there staying the Emotiva XPA-5 is going. Next year I will move up to all Crown XLS with the 2002's for the fronts for the SVS ultra towers the 1502's for the surrounds which will be the prime towers and the 1002's will be moved to running the heights the C34e's. At that time I'll flip the UPA-7 as well.
Less than 9 lbs each. Cool. :)
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I never heard any Emo amps and never like them, but apparently they have a lot of followers who also reported night and day difference of improvements simply by adding one of those amps to their AVRs. That just tells you how and why subjective reviews are not to be taken too seriously. By the way, so I guess you probably feel even the X4400H's internal amp could sound better than the XPA amp, to your ears anyway?
I think any decent power amp makes a difference. Over any reciever so I can understand why people have that night and day reaction. I understand that spec wise avrs running only 40 to 50 watts per channel on all channels driven can sound great. Especially in smaller rooms

But no one is going to convince me that giving pure undistorted power that can handle any impedance load or swing on all those channels driven especially to speakers that can handle lots of power even if they are efficient at 40 or 50 watts is not going to make a big difference in your surround sound or 2 channel listening experience. Id want that even in a smaller room just for headroom and dynamics without having to crank the volumes. The life it gives to your avr not having to stress itself driving everything is worth the investment alone

For example my denon X4400H which is known for running quiet hot doesn't even get warm since I've switched to all external amplification.

I am not bashing emotiva at all the amp didn't sound bad and to answer your question it still sounded better then the demons interior amps. Because the Denon can't keep up with it in pure power headroom impedance swings and dynamics with all its channels driven no avr can. It's just unrealistic. And I enjoyed a lot about the amp it's clarity dynamics and detail were all great.

But here comes the butt. I'm a big big stickler for airy laid back highs and midrangres. As much as you've noticed I'm a stickler for tight distortion free accurate bass. And the Emotivas had a bright forward presentation that I dont like that the crowns don't. They are just as accurate but the highs and midrange are laid back and mellow never harsh. I noticEd this with voices as well. Just a small and it could be in my head more natural presentation with the crowns and I'm big on voice presentation as well. But I don't think after switching back and forth it was all in my head.

So I'm not not bashing Emotiva at all for your money your getting a great product. I just like how the Crowns sounded better. But I would take the Emotivas all day over the amps in the Denon. Even if they have a better sound signature to my tastes. I'm never going to hear it because driving all channels to any level of usefulness there going to thin out and become bright and grating because it just can't keep up. Not in a room my size and that's not it's fault. No ave should be expected too. We just expect them too because companies inflate there specs.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Less than 9 lbs each. Cool. :)
yeah the weight and size management is so sweet and cool is the word. These things never run hot and although they have interior fans they never run at all or if they do I can't hear them
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
yeah the weight and size management is so sweet and cool is the word. These things never run hot and although they have interior fans they never run at all or if they do I can't hear them
And it's crazy how much clean power they can put out I don't even want to think about what I would have to pay on a traditional amp from any major amplifier producer for home gear to get either monos or multichannel amps that can produce the same amount of power. For sound quality size weight quietness running cool and power for the dollar for a budget minded audioholic like me these just can't be beat in my opinion just my opinion tho :)
 

TechHDS

Audioholic General
Ummm, I been giving this Thread some more Thought, I’ve come to a Different collusion ;)
Audio is very Subjective, I refuse to be apart of the abuse anymore. So with that said I’m going back to to just 2.0! All this got me thinking Dem dam Audio engineers are laughing all the way to bank on our dime. So I changed my vote and that is what it is! :p;):cool:

Mike
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I never heard any Emo amps and never like them, but apparently they have a lot of followers who also reported night and day difference of improvements simply by adding one of those amps to their AVRs. That just tells you how and why subjective reviews are not to be taken too seriously. By the way, so I guess you probably feel even the X4400H's internal amp could sound better than the XPA amp, to your ears anyway?
Well, duh!

Of course the McIntosh sound of the Denon (and the Levinson sound of the Yamaha) will be a night-and-day improvement over the EMO. Hello! :D :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think any decent power amp makes a difference. Over any reciever so I can understand why people have that night and day reaction. I understand that spec wise avrs running only 40 to 50 watts per channel on all channels driven can sound great. Especially in smaller rooms

But no one is going to convince me that giving pure undistorted power that can handle any impedance load or swing on all those channels driven especially to speakers that can handle lots of power even if they are efficient at 40 or 50 watts is not going to make a big difference in your surround sound or 2 channel listening experience. Id want that even in a smaller room just for headroom and dynamics without having to crank the volumes. The life it gives to your avr not having to stress itself driving everything is worth the investment alone

For example my denon X4400H which is known for running quiet hot doesn't even get warm since I've switched to all external amplification.

I am not bashing emotiva at all the amp didn't sound bad and to answer your question it still sounded better then the demons interior amps. Because the Denon can't keep up with it in pure power headroom impedance swings and dynamics with all its channels driven no avr can. It's just unrealistic. And I enjoyed a lot about the amp it's clarity dynamics and detail were all great.

But here comes the butt. I'm a big big stickler for airy laid back highs and midrangres. As much as you've noticed I'm a stickler for tight distortion free accurate bass. And the Emotivas had a bright forward presentation that I dont like that the crowns don't. They are just as accurate but the highs and midrange are laid back and mellow never harsh. I noticEd this with voices as well. Just a small and it could be in my head more natural presentation with the crowns and I'm big on voice presentation as well. But I don't think after switching back and forth it was all in my head.

So I'm not not bashing Emotiva at all for your money your getting a great product. I just like how the Crowns sounded better. But I would take the Emotivas all day over the amps in the Denon. Even if they have a better sound signature to my tastes. I'm never going to hear it because driving all channels to any level of usefulness there going to thin out and become bright and grating because it just can't keep up. Not in a room my size and that's not it's fault. No ave should be expected too. We just expect them too because companies inflate there specs.
I already knew in your case, external amps are a must but am wondering if you feel things still sound better with the XPAs even for lower spl listening, say at volume -20, or 60 in the abs scale. Tough question for you though as you likely never had the volume set that low.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Ummm, I been giving this Thread some more Thought, I’ve come to a Different collusion ;)
Audio is very Subjective, I refuse to be apart of the abuse anymore. So with that said I’m going back to to just 2.0! All this got me thinking Dem dam Audio engineers are laughing all the way to bank on our dime. So I changed my vote and that is what it is! :p;):cool:

Mike
I'm sure your EMO is just fine, Mike. :D

Your Elites is doing all the singing, not the amp. ;)
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I already knew in your case, external amps are a must but am wondering if you feel things still sound better with the XPAs even for lower spl listening, say at volume -20, or 60 in the abs scale. Tough question for you though as you likely never had the volume set that low.
Yes I down to a ceartin level of course you couldn't tell but believe it or not I don't always blast the system. And at lower levels at 70 to mid 60's I still like the Emotivas. Below that I cant really tell a difference. Once again I like the Emotivas. But this is why I started buying used amps. To learn and figure out what I like at different options.

I've learned that I like lightweight small cool running high power with good dynamics and that can handle heavy loads if need be good sounding not the best but good sounding bang for your bucks amps. And if one of em goes out after warranty. Cool get a new one way better then hauling in some huge heavy ass amp to get one channel fixed and paying for shipping and repair if out of warranty.

But I liked the Emotivas enough that if I had never experimented with the crowns I'd have been happy for quiet some time. I just liked them a little more that's all.

This is no criticism of anyone but one thing I'm grateful for is I'm glad I tried Emotiva out. I like to test drive something before I have any input on its value. I had a great time with mine most people will love Emotiva and there customer service was impeccable. Answering all my questions on used products I cant say enough good things about that company. I'm just finding I'm picky on what I like is all.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Ummm, I been giving this Thread some more Thought, I’ve come to a Different collusion ;)
Audio is very Subjective, I refuse to be apart of the abuse anymore. So with that said I’m going back to to just 2.0! All this got me thinking Dem dam Audio engineers are laughing all the way to bank on our dime. So I changed my vote and that is what it is! :p;):cool:

Mike
Hey bro your a great guy I've enjoyed our back and forth. Whatever you like in your system I support you 100% My experience I've repeatedly said throughout this experience were subjective and need to be taken with a grain of salt. What I like isn't what others like. But that's what makes this whole racket so cool and fun. Is how we learn from each other based on our personal preferences
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes I down to a ceartin level of course you couldn't tell but believe it or not I don't always blast the system. And at lower levels at 70 to mid 60's I still like the Emotivas. Below that I cant really tell a difference. Once again I like the Emotivas. But this is why I started buying used amps. To learn and figure out what I like at different options.

I've learned that I like lightweight small cool running high power with good dynamics and that can handle heavy loads if need be good sounding not the best but good sounding bang for your bucks amps. And if one of em goes out after warranty. Cool get a new one way better then hauling in some huge heavy ass amp to get one channel fixed and paying for shipping and repair if out of warranty.

But I liked the Emotivas enough that if I had never experimented with the crowns I'd have been happy for quiet some time. I just liked them a little more that's all.

This is no criticism of anyone but one thing I'm grateful for is I'm glad I tried Emotiva out. I like to test drive something before I have any input on its value. I had a great time with mine most people will love Emotiva and there customer service was impeccable. Answering all my questions on used products I cant say enough good things about that company. I'm just finding I'm picky on what I like is all.
I have the impression that you like the UPA more than the XPAs, aside from the power difference, right?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I have the impression that you like the UPA more than the XPAs, aside from the power difference, right?
Well I liked them both equally really. There really is a lot they get right. A LOT. It just come down to a personal preference in what I think I'm getting out of my sound. All subjective of course. But yes since I like them both the same I'll be flipping that one as well when I go all crowns. Someone out there is going to have a very lucky day. Because I'm going to give them a sweet deal on 12 channels of amplification. These Emotivas I did enjoy and they deserve to go to a good home
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I have the impression that you like the UPA more than the XPAs, aside from the power difference, right?
You gotta remember when I first bought the UPA there was that wow factor from getting my first amp. And the difference it made. So I think that colored my commentary. But now over time I can say they both are good performing amps I really can't pick one over the other. They both sound very similar just one has more power
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Ummm, I been giving this Thread some more Thought, I’ve come to a Different collusion ;)
Audio is very Subjective, I refuse to be apart of the abuse anymore. So with that said I’m going back to to just 2.0! All this got me thinking Dem dam Audio engineers are laughing all the way to bank on our dime. So I changed my vote and that is what it is! :p;):cool:

Mike
Subs are my children. Can’t ever go subless. LOL :)
 

TechHDS

Audioholic General
You gotta remember when I first bought the UPA there was that wow factor from getting my first amp. And the difference it made. So I think that colored my commentary. But now over time I can say they both are good performing amps I really can't pick one over the other. They both sound very similar just one has more power
Dynamics will get you every time! It’s why We do what We do Bro!

Mike
 

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